West Wing - Toby and Josh have a fight

Toby Ziegler has a fight with Josh Lyman. Toby lost his brother, who committed suicide, and blames Josh for leaving the White House. He also helped an opponent of Josh candidate Santos...

Category:

Entertainment

Tags:

• bradley
• fight
• josh
• lyman
• richard
• shiff
• toby
• west
• whitford
• wing
• ziegler

[baz2186]

The best drama political drama ever and im a Brit!!

[7d23]

Toby is a "cold face" character but he had showed his emotional side in this episode, quite surprising really. Richard Schiff is a star in this episode, brilliant acting.

[QueenThothStar]

I wish there had been a episode were they made up properly.  I cant mind them being together again after this.

[cretincruncher]

@cretincruncher  excuse the typos

[cretincruncher]

Right from the start Toby was an accident waiting to happen. Not that I'm blaming him for this scene. His aggressiveness was manifested in a rasied voice, raised progressivly to make even an innocuous point. He was a great shouter. He had to have his come uppance because he exploded so often, at anybody. His perennial temper was unleashed at the President (the President's father episode) When Toby's time had come, Bartlett let it be known to Toby that he always thought it would come to this.

[powe2550]

That's a heartbreakingly great scene. This whole episode was extraordinarily well written.

[nascarkraz]

@Peter24601 VERY good point! I loved this episode so much. I also was cringing at Josh and Toby fighting so they really pulled it off both Richard and Bradley. However this was a showcase of Richard's talent for sure! Josh and Toby were my favorite duel so seeing them fight was hard to watch especially since it was Toby that found Josh when he was shot. I kept thinking how their relationship had changed post-Sorkin and it saddens me they never had a closing. :(

[switchbuckle5th]

@gambitvoleur The fist fight didn't bother me, I bought it because Toby I think has always been one step away from this kind of thing even when Sorkin was writing. What does bother me is the stupid freeze frame. I've been watching the show all over again and I just got into season 5, first without Sorkin, and the first thing I notice is the way it's shot is totally different. Too much hand held camera, floating camera, odd editing techniques. Too much glitz. For me it cheapens the show a little

[bornbillsmith]

Even though these two are friends and have worked together

Even friends fight sometimes over nothing important.

This wasn't nothing.

It started with talking which turned into yelling and then too verbal abuse.

Is it so impossible to believe these two men under stress can come too fighting with their fist.

People do stupid things sometimes .

no one is perfect.

[dersquirrel]

No, this scene sucks because the show went to hell after Aaron Sorkin left. The West Wing under Aaron Sorkin was all about the power of words and now that he's gone let's have two of the main character have a fistfight in the middle of the White House.

Does that sound like a scene from the greatest political drama in the history of time, or a Michael Bay movie?

[VolumeTurnedDown]

Huh. So the pennies thing (which he grabbed off his desk during the fight) was about his brother? Never noticed before.

[Peter24601]

@DarqueStar - The more you hate this scene means you care about the characters so much you hate to see them fight. That's a compliment to the show for bringing us good characters we care this much about. Even the best of friends have their moments. Toby wanted to help Josh, but thought he would be included in selection of the candidate. That hurt him a lot... and it had to come out.