InMendham Crappen on Mr Cropper ....part 1 of 2

response to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClIXhCM-dLw

inmendham

Category:

Education

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• labor
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• value

[ironmonkeyheller]

@technatezin "Where do you see order exactly?"

Everywhere. The universe creates order spontaneously. There is order in the laws of nature, in the actions of human beings, in civilization itself. When humans created civilization, they turned disorder into order. Capitlism is a system made up of numerous seemingly chaotic individual decisions, yet it creates economic order. The technological progress of humanity is also an example of order from chaos. Look at the technology you use every day.

[ironmonkeyheller]

@technatezin ...who has served his time in jail.

"If you're in that situation wouldn't you lie to save yourself?"

I don't see how lying would save me. I don't care about lying, I care about whether or not I'm respecting the rights of others.

This discussion isn't going anywhere. There's probably no way I can convince you that utilitarianism isn't a moral system. Utilitarianism is the lack of a moral system, where any action can be justified as "moral."

[ironmonkeyheller]

@technatezin "In emergency situations people lie to themselves and lie to others in order to save themselves or do you think this is not human nature?"

OK. What's your point?

"So are you saying that you would not kill someone who is a habitual liar or criminal to save the more valuable members of the crew even if he's worthless to you if you save him and thus dooming the life boat?"

Just because you lie doesn't mean you lose the right to live. The same goes for a criminal...

[technatezin]

@ironmonkeyheller "No, where in my comments do I say that I think that? I was simply disputing your statement that everything in the world is anarchistic."

Just take a look around. Where do you see order exactly? There's a simple kind of haphazard disorder of trading, waste, nepotism and mutual threats and bribery, but that isn't what I would exactly call order. Perhaps organized barbarism would be a more appropriate term for it.

[technatezin]

@ironmonkeyheller "I jjust wouldn't kill someone else that has not done anything to me."

In emergency situations people lie to themselves and lie to others in order to save themselves or do you think this is not human nature? So are you saying that you would not kill someone who is a habitual liar or criminal to save the more valuable members of the crew even if he's worthless to you if you save him and thus dooming the life boat? If you're in that situation wouldn't you lie to save yourself?

[ironmonkeyheller]

@technatezin "Oh, you're a martyr *sarcasm*. So in a desperate situation you would kill yourself if you're important thus DOOMING everyone rather than save everyone by sacrificing someone?"

No, I wouldn't kill myself. I jjust wouldn't kill someone else that has not done anything to me. See the difference? It is solely the decision of the individual whether they want to sacrifice themselves to save others. No man has the right to decide that another man should die for the good of the group.

[ironmonkeyheller]

@technatezin "And those governmental institutions include armed security forces which are human which means they can also include corrupt police BECAUSE they are HUMAN or are you naive enough to think corrupt police do not exist?"

No, where in my comments do I say that I think that? I was simply disputing your statement that everything in the world is anarchistic.

[technatezin]

@ironmonkeyheller "Very few lack governmental institutions."

And those governmental institutions include armed security forces which are human which means they can also include corrupt police BECAUSE they are HUMAN or are you naive enough to think corrupt police do not exist?

"... mean they are actually less valuable."

Oh, you're a martyr *sarcasm*. So in a desperate situation you would kill yourself if you're important thus DOOMING everyone rather than save everyone by sacrificing someone?

[ironmonkeyheller]

@technatezin ...I would not throw anyone overboard in that situation. I'd rather die by a moral code than live through disgusting cowardice. If you can't respect the equal rights of your fellow man, you should leave society before you hurt someone.

[ironmonkeyheller]

@technatezin "In a typical overloaded life boat scenario would you throw the least valuable member of the life boat overboard if you are certain of capsizing if you don't?"

No I would not. First of all, there is no such thing as a least valuable person. Maybe a person has less value to your survival in your eyes, but that doesn't mean they are actually less valuable.