Re: Letsplaychess.com: How did the computer play a human move?! Deeper Blue vs Kasparov

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Re: Letsplaychess.com: How did the computer play a human move?!

Category:

Entertainment

Tags:

• chess
• letsplaychess.com
• chessworld.net
• kasparov
• computer
• deeper
• blue
• artificial
• intelligence
• IBM
• heuristics
• brute
• force

[jdthom6]

I am wondering, kingscrusher, did rybka find the winning move for white with queen d7, or did you know about this and force the computer to play this move for further analysis? Because if rybka could not find that move for white, it is doubtful that an old computer like deep blue could have found it.

[kingscrusher]

Unless anyone has a flaw in the line of "2TheDeath" below, it seems black has enough to draw after all.

[2TheDeath]

After looking at this variation for some time in my opinion the critical defensive try for Black is 49...Qd3+

e.g.: 45. Ra6 Qe3 46. Qxd6 Re8 47. Qd7+ Re7 48. Qc6 Qxe4 49. d6 Qd3+ 50. Kg1 Re8 51. Qd7+ Kf8 52. Kh2 Qd2 53. Ra1 Qf4+ 54. Kh1 e4.

With perhaps enough counterplay. Comments?

[kingscrusher]

That does indeed look promising! I might have to do a third video about it at some point. Ooops!.

[KNIGHTSTALE22]

thankyou very much for this vid kingscrusher. the books i have all say kasparov missed a draw like john nunns practical chess but give no solid anylsis to the continuations. apologies for trying to be a smart ass and suggesting you had missed this. i have watched your vids for ages but have only just created an account to comment on vids, guess i wanted my first comments to be noticed. again you have taught me something new in chess as always, thank you very much for your efforts Knights Tale

[kingscrusher]

I think you might be right about Qe3 - it does seem to draw on the variation just posted in the above comments. You weren't being a smart ass- I should have mentioned Qe3. It is a fascinating position to resign in. Kasparov must have been feeling very angry and upset about seeing the earlier Be4.

[lcvvcf]

Since you're a computer scientist, you might be interested in the 1950 paper by Shannon (or probably already know about it): "Programming a computer for playing chess".

There's also a talk by Kasparov on Google's Youtube channel uploaded this week where he talks about this game again.

[thomashatcher]

Thank you. Perhaps not conclusive, but very impressive. You don't have to prove there was not a draw by perpetual check after . . . Qe3. Proving a negative is almost impossible. The burden of proof is on those who say there was a perpetual check, and since the computer missed it that shows a human was helping. IBM is innocent until proven guilty.

[JamesMazur2]

Interestingly, enough I have Rybka too.  And it seems you have overlooked 54. Qd4! for White. Then, for example:

54. ...e3

55. Qxc4 Qxc4

56. Rxc4 Rxd6

And now: 57. Kf1 without threat of draw.

[nate196876]

dead on ! your the man !

[worldchess]

The issue here is not just the deep repetition draw, but the fact that black can seem to get into a slightly inferior endgame also.

Rybka gives a defense for black of

Qd6d7+ Re8e7 Qd7c6 Qe3xe4 d5d6 Qe4xf5+ Kf1g1 Re7d7 Qc6xb5 Qf5e6 Qb5c5 Kf7g6 Ra6c6 f6f5, although winning, not won.

[worldchess]

I disagree with the analysis of the video.

Feng-Hsiung HSU writes on page 233 of his book "behind deep blue"

"after 45 Qe3... white could play either Qd7+ or Qxd6, to refute either of these movedsyou need to do deep and tricky analysis.....Deep Blue Jr. had critical moves in its main line within minutes, but to sort out all the ramifications took close to an hour. The deepest line was 30 plies." pg 233.

[loikasser]

not if you cant checkmate him but if you dont have a winning position you should try to draw...

[smussbrighton]

Hi Tryf, Happy New Year!

Thank you for yet another great vid.

However, you did not consider this variation which Rybka gives as drawing even with the seemingly winning Qc6 move. The key for black is 49...Qxf5+.

48.Qc6 Qxe4 49.d6 Qxf5+ 50.Kg1 Rd7

51.Qxb5 Qe6 52.Qc5 Kg6 53.Rc6 e4 54.Kf1 f5 55.b5 Kf6 56.b6 Qe5 57.Qxc4 Qf4+

58.Ke2 Qg3 59.Qd4+ Ke6 60.Kf1 e3 61.Qc4+ Ke5 62.Qb5+ Ke6 63.Qb2 Qf4+ 64.Kg1 Qe4

65.Qa2+ Kf6 66.b7 e2 67.Qxe2 Qxe2 68.b8Q Qe1+ 69.Kh2 Qe5+ 70.Kg1 Qe1+ (perpetual)

[Nickalispicalis]

Yes indeed, Shredder confirms what our learned presenter suggests. Only Qc6 wins, all other draws. Be4 is the #1 candidate move and Qb6 is a close 2nd. Kasparov was blowing smoke.

[Nickalispicalis]

Incidentally, aside from the resigning in a drawn position controvesy, Kasparov fully deserved to lose this game. His play was very passive. He basicly sat back and waited for Deep Blue to stomp him, which he did.