Tory Lisbon Treason Treaty referendum promise meltdown (03Nov09)

The "cast iron" promise by the Conservatives on having a referendum on the Treason Lisbon Treaty gets scrapped and melted down. Freedom and democracy is dead in Europe, Brussels celebrates Communism in 27 European countries without a shot being fired.

Recorded from Channel 4 News, 03 November 2009.

Category:

News & Politics

Tags:

• tory
• conservative
• cast
• iron
• promise
• referendum
• treason
• lisbon
• treaty
• abandoned
• mented
• down
• eu
• eussr
• communist
• bloc
• block
• communism
• new
• world
• order
• death
• to
• freedom
• democracy
• dead

[danielhewson]

Gordon Brown is a fucking traitor

[chigs1977]

1st step on the way to a Facist European Super State.......

[Franzjosefderzweite]

Well, then you may be a classic conservative, in the narrow sense. I was referring to right views in a broader sense... but anyway.

[asmodeus585]

To me right is about being libertarian when it comes to economy and education, but being rather conservative (in classical sense) when it comes to family, culture and foreign policy. I give you an example on the issue of homosexuality: a rightist to me would be someone who don't care what you do in bed unless you're announcing it to the whole world and saying that you're pround of it. Rightist would be against any discrimination of gay, but wouldn't support any special gay rights, etc.

[Franzjosefderzweite]

Isn't what you call right then rather Libertarian?

[asmodeus585]

@Franzjosefderzweite Maybe, but then I don't call them rightist anymore. For instance, to me, Bush wasn't a right-wing politician, because he opposed civil liberties and used terror to promote his Big Brother policies. If people calling themself right or left wing can do anything, then those definitions don't matter anymore.

[Franzjosefderzweite]

Not quite. Rightist views can reach from libertarian to reactionary big brother authoritarianism. Thats a pretty broad range of possibilities.

[asmodeus585]

Apparently, it's not wholly true. Typical rightist policies are pro-freedom and against bureaucracy, meanwhile EU is mostly about paper work. But then again, politics is always politics and it's a game in which rarely anyone truly thinks about the well-being of others.

[Franzjosefderzweite]

I think you confuse something here. Left or right political views can be independent of the question if one favors or opposes supranational integration. This can be illustrated by the fact that the extreme of the left and the right oppose the EU. At the same time moderates from both sides, can either be supportive of opposed to supranational structures.

The EU can principally do both, follow a leftist or rightist policy. This mostly depends on the political majority in Europe and in the EU.

[asmodeus585]

@Franzjosefderzweite No, in my opinion the best option would be for EU to radically change itself into sth less leftist. Charles de Gaulle believed in Europe with cooperating nations, not in some quasi-federal state. Europe should be more about true cooperation when it is genuinely needed and less about bureaucracy and its absurd rules.

[Franzjosefderzweite]

The UK does not even belong to Schengen now. Do you suggest, it should leave the EU but join Schengen?