Real Utopia-Left Forum '08: Michael Albert (1/3)

Real Utopia:
Participatory Society for the 21st Century

A Left Forum Panel, hosted by Z Communications

Filmed at Cooper Union, NYC, on 3/15/2008, by Charngchi Way (Chomskyan) and David Buccola (Buddhagem)

Panelists:
Chair-Meaghan Linick-Loughley-New School SDS

Chris Spannos-ZNet
Michael Albert-ZNet
Jessica Azulay-The New Standard, WebRoot Solutions
Brian Dominick-The New Standard, WebRoot Solutions
Greg Wilpert-Venezuelanalysis.com
Richard W. Franke-Montclair State University, NJ

http://www.zcommunications.org

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com

http://www.newstandardnews.net

http://www.mywebroot.com

http://www.radiofreemaine.com

Category:

Nonprofits & Activism

Tags:

• Left
• forum
• participatory
• economics
• society
• Michael
• Albert
• ZNet
• parecon
• democracy

[blaziermissy]

@Crustanarchy True..free trade has also never guaranteed "fair" trade.

[nocturnezero]

CLIFFHANGER.

[Crustanarchy]

@immanent We tried "truly free trade", ever hear of child labor, disgusting poverty, and the rise of wage-slavery? Where do you think the 8-hour day came from? "Truly free trade" means truly unaccountable trade in reality.

[SweetDissident]

The idea that "people should have a say in decisions in proportion to the degree we're affected by them." Sounds like freedom to me.

[jumpnjza2]

Need is the most imperious of masters.

[SweetDissident]

immanent, fair trade has been interpreted and is a working policy. I would love to give you the link, but i can't here on comments. For example, there are fair trade products one can buy, etc. Chavez is maligned in our press, and so we misunderstand a great deal. His horrid crime is wanting to keep the resources (petroleum)of his country for the people there to prosper from, instead of handing it over to us, at our demand. He does not want his free country to end up a "colony of the u.s."

[immanent]

And while I am no fan of Chavez restraining the free speech and entrerprise of his countrymen, I could understand some paranoia and suspicion about his opposition in Venezuela being truly free maket advocates.

The U.S. govt. is indeed hypocritical in the mainstream media coverage, diplomatic stance, and covert operation departments. Its hard for me to guess if Chavez is truly well-meaning, but as a non-interventionist, I'm all for getting our freakin' noses out of Venezuelan affairs.

[immanent]

my problem with "fair" is that it is open to interpretation. What is fair to some isn't fair to others. There is no such argument about "free." It has a very singular definition, "to be unincumbered." Truly FREE trade, that isn't just regulation to constrain small/individual enterprise, is the truly fair way to have it. You don't tell me how to barter and transact business with anyone in the world, and I won't tell you how to run your business either.

[SweetDissident]

Dear Immanent, "fair trade" isn't an idea in my head, it exists, and it's not government managed to my knowledge. It considers the foreign countries we trade with, their workers, all of it. Our so-called "free trade" agreements are not always fair, and more than once, the U.S. has overthrown democratically elected leaders in foreign countries for "not playing ball" with us. Allende and Aristide, to name two. We're now going great guns after Chavez in Venezuela, maligning him in our press.

[immanent]

incentive = suffering when you buy the big lie that we live in a free market environment. In a truly free market, everyone who even half-asses it can make it, while those who work harder and smarter are rewarded. Sure some people will fall through the cracks, but Americans are uniquely compassionate; charity and volunteerism will take care of those as every one will be much wealthier.

What you are saying is:

egalitarianism > freedom

I couldn't disagree more.