Thundersky battery failure in Bob Siebert's AC150 conversion

After GM goons confiscated Bob's beloved EV1 oil-free plug-in car, Bob decided to build an even better one, using the AC-150, the successor drivetrain to the EV1's pioneering inductive 3-phase brushless motor-controller.

The original Thundersky LiCo batteries had a failure rate of 20%; the other 80% are working properly, but Thundersky refuses to honor any warranty and has not replaced the bad cells.

Forced to find other cells, Bob contacted Peak Lithium, which has LiFeP chemistry (3.2v), a step on the way to LiFePTi (2.3v).

How much better to have access to Nickel Metal Hydride non-toxic batteries; but Chevron refuses to release them to individual converters or to small manufacturers, claiming that no order is "large enough". But prior to Chevron's 2002 lawsuit, Toyota had a functioning NiMH production line, churning out quantities of inexpensive, long-lasting NiMH batteries still working in the Toyota RAV4-EV pictured in the driveway.

Category:

Autos & Vehicles

Tags:

• Thundersky battery failure
• Peak Lithium
• EV1
• RAV4-EV
• Who killed the Electric Car
• Chevron
• GM
• Lutz
• Wagoner

[givemetoast]

So what's the bottom line liveoilfree; if buying a new pack today, which would you pick?

[liveoilfree]

The newer Li-Fe-PO version apparently works much better. But don't expect it to last much past 20K miles -- these are all short-term, niche non-solutions to the big issue: when are they going to RESUME producing EVs which last more than 100K miles on a battery pack.

[liveoilfree]

BTW, the battery experts in L.A. recommend Enersys lead-acid; while it won't last 100K miles, it's cheap and easily recycled. Exide Orbitals might be good, too, for high-performance EVs. Who knows, long-lasting Li might be made available some day.

[ThalassTKynn]

TS seem to have improved their quality since this video was made, at least with their LiFePO4 cells. Judging by other EV converters using them, at least.

I'm still in the planning stages so it'll be a while before I by my own pack. Hopefully I won't have to wait 'till 2014 to get a decent pack. LiFePO4 seems good, if expensive.

[liveoilfree]

Yes, you're correct; in fact, Bob has replaced the Peak batteries with the newer TS batteries, and, thanks to some help from ACP, is up and running!!

[MrEnergyCzar]

I'm getting a Volt so I only use 100 gallons of gas per year.....

[lazzer408]

Thundersky lost more money from this video then it would have cost them to replace the batteries. Companies are so stupid sometimes.

[coolerow]

you sound like Donald Sutherland

[m1aws]

@Grimdopple No Bullsh*t Management Sh*ttup is ever required. There is not and never has been a major electric car man'fr which has ever used one. They cause fires!

Besides. A small battery will empty first. Then it will enter reverse voltage as the others gang against it.

No BMS will ever bring that back from the dead.

The best bet if unbalanced (On equal batts) is bottom balance and give 80% charge.

A good vid is on jack rickards blog. A prof tells how they work in deep detail.

[Grimdopple]

@m1aws thats true, you should mix different batteries, but doesnt mean you cant. as long as you have a good bms then your fine. this video was made afew years ago when thundersky was more of a gamble then an investment, and only a123 had li-fe at the time, i believe.

[m1aws]

So lets hear this straight. This car has a mix of batteries. YOU CANNOT MIX THESE BATTERIES! BALANCE IS EVERYTHING!

The owner has never bottom balanced the Lithiums before charging proper.

Thundersky: LiCo? They don't make LiCo! The present ones are LiFePo4's and the next gen will be LiYt

Did you kill the thunderskys by overcharging or over discharging?

Lacking knowledge of anything always becomes an expensive problem. All I see is you blame others for your awful engineering expertise .

[lostbuffalo]

since Patent privileges apply only to commerce it would NOT be illegal to sell components for people to manufacture their own Ni-Mh batteries as long as those components were not exclusively patented.

WHY?

Because patent Law only limits commercial use and manufacture of patented instruments and processes... not personal use and manufacture

[lostbuffalo]

Patent privileges do not even apply to personal use or manufacture or to research use and manufacture.

Patent privileges only apply to commerce.

[lostbuffalo]

Copyrights and Patent rights are priveleges.

Information is not natural property

No one has a natural right to prohibit anyone from using and enjoying information

Patents should be "use it or lose it"

Patent privileges are to protect the new ideas of inventors and developers so they can get investment to bring new ideas to production...the Ideas that BENEFIT SOCIETY.

Patent privileges. were never legislated to prohibit public enjoyment of new ideas.

[DanFrederiksen]

@blueberu no that's bullshit. evcomponents. com have problems. thundersky of course wasn't involved

[DanFrederiksen]

bms seems to be a cause of battery death more often than is known.

the cells might well have been perfectly fine.

did Victor from metric mind make this bms? he's now known for making stuff that isn't quite tested properly and when it fails he is not the kind to take credit..