Lie #2 Christians Are Just Sinners Saved By Grace

This is one of the 101 lies taught in church every Sunday. Check out the others on my blog at www.gracewalkministries.blogspot.com

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[SteveMcVey]

The similarity you see is that, like Calvinists, I believe God is sovereign. I don't agree with many other aspects of Calvinism though.

[aubhar]

I left the church and I denounce jesus and that is because i dont believe jesus does not exist as a son of God. He walked on water, he healed the blind, made the lame walk. he promised us we would do bigger and better things than him in miracles. But i have never seen any dead being raised or some blind dude receive sight. What do you say to that Steve? I been a christain for 25 years. And now I let it all go. You think you can help me?

[SteveMcVey]

That all depends.... do you WANT help?

[StringPlunker]

@THERAPTURECOMES

Q1. Yes I am. Gentiles were never under the Law. See 2:12-13.

No I wouldn't be saying Christ didn't die for the Gentile. Try again.

Q2. Because Paul is explaining what it is like to be a Jew under the Law & not in Christ.

Q3. As a Jew under the Law, yes he was sold under sin. Now he is free.

Q4. That is because there is a distinction between being under the Law & in Christ. See 6:14.

Q5. No, I was bought by Jesus Christ. I am his servant, not sin's.

[THERAPTURECOMES]

@StringPlunker You are not reading in context at all. Are you saying this does not apply to the gentile? If you say yes then you are saying Christ did not die for gentiles?

As I have pointed out more than once, there is neither Jew nor gentile in Christianity so why are you trying to create two groups?

Paul calls himself carnal and sold under sin as a human and not just as a Jew.

You are trying to create a distinction that does not exist. Are you carnal and sold under sin?

[StringPlunker]

@THERAPTURECOMES

I don't remember saying anything about you or me. I don't remember saying anything about obeying the Law either. The topic was Romans 7 which is about the reality of being a Jew under the Law. See v 1. Under the Law, the Jew was sold under sin (v.14); he was in bondage, a slave of sin. But in Christ this is no longer the case. The Jewish Christian was no longer under the Law & sin was no longer his master. He was no longer a slave of sin but set free from sin.

[THERAPTURECOMES]

@StringPlunker Are you saying that you no longer sin willfully? Is this what you are saying?

So you are saying obey the law for salvation.

It can only be one way or the other. Either you think you can follow the law and not break it at one point or you are saved completely by Grace.

There is no mixing the two

[StringPlunker]

@THERAPTURECOMES

7:14 - sold under sin.

Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 7:24

our old man was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin

Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

Who is your master? Sin?

[THERAPTURECOMES]

@StringPlunker There is neither Jew or Gentile in the Church of Christ as shown by Gal 3:28 & Col 3:11 ALSO WRITTEN BY PAUL of which, this destroys your argument.

Paul is referring to the human condition in all man in sinful flesh and not just the Jews

[StringPlunker]

@THERAPTURECOMES

He is addressing the Jewish segment of a Jew/Gentile church.

See 2:17; 3:8-9; 4:1, and 7:1, "those who know the Law."

If you are sold under sin you are a slave of sin and free of righteousness. Christians are not sold under sin. He who commits sin is a slave of sin and of the devil.

[THERAPTURECOMES]

@StringPlunker Paul is speaking to both Jew and Gentile because in 8:1 he talks about "them that are in Christ" and in Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile Gal 3:28 & Col 3:11.

He, as a human, as Paul, was commenting on his STATE as a saved sinner and makes clear HIS condition.

I am sorry but you exegesis is just flat out incorrect.

[StringPlunker]

@THERAPTURECOMES

Under the law you are sold under sin, a slave of sin. 7:14. Read Romans 6:14ff. In Christ, you are set free from sin and you not a slave of sin. 7:1-6 explains how that happened for a Jew under the Law. Romans 7:1ff. is what it is like to be a Jew under the Law. Paul was a Jew under the Law. Romans 8:1-4. But NOW. Same idea at 3:19-21.

In Christ, one is no longer sold under sin, a slave of sin.

[THERAPTURECOMES]

@StringPlunker Never mind, I figured out who you were referring to as 'HE'. (Paul).

And how does that change the fact that Paul says what he says? Are not all believers in Christ BROTHERS?

You cannot change what Paul's says based upon his audience.

He is also addressing the sinful nature of the FLESH of which the LAW is used to IDENTIFY the SIN and sin is in all FLESH