What Must I Do To Be Saved? ( Rebuttals - 3 of 4 )

What is the difference in Salvation between Christianity and Islam?

Does Islam guarantee Salvation?

Is Jesus Christ the only way to Salvation?

Which faith leads to eternal salvation, Islam or Christianity?

"Christianity and Islam."

A truly remarkable series of four debates held at four Canadian universities on four different questions.

Day 2: What Must I Do To Be Saved?

Representing the Muslim perspective was Shabir Ally: Shabir Ally has earned a B.A. in Religious Studies from Laurentian University in Sudbury, Ontario, with a specialization in Biblical Literature, and an M.A. in Religious Studies from the University of Toronto with a specialization in Quranic Exegesis.

He is now in his fourth year of Ph.D studies in Quranic Exegesis at the University of Toronto.

He is the president of the Islamic Information & Dawah Centre International in Toronto where he functions as Imam.

He travels internationally to represent Islam in public lectures and interfaith dialogues.

He explains Islam on a weekly television program called "Let the Quran Speak.

He's the author of the book " Is Jesus God? The Bible Says No ! "

Representing the Christian side was Dr. William Lane Craig: Dr. William is Research Professor of Philosophy at Talbot School of Theology in La Mirada, California.

He lives in Atlanta, Georgia, with his wife Jan and their two teenage children Charity and John.

At the age of sixteen as a junior in high school, he first heard the message of the Christian gospel and yielded his life to Christ.

Dr. Craig pursued his undergraduate studies at Wheaton College (B.A. 1971) and graduate studies at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School (M.A. 1974; M.A. 1975), the University of Birmingham (England) (Ph.D. 1977), and the University of Munich (Germany) (D.Theol. 1984).

The Topic of Debate: What Must I Do To Be Saved?


Shabir Ally (www.Shabirally.com)

vs.

Dr. Willam Lane Craig

(www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/)

(York University, Toronto, Canada 5th March 2002)

For further information on upcoming or previous debates click here

http://www.shabirally.com/debates.asp

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[abacabbabacabb1]

Also, within the 99 names of God, is one of them love? No. But look at the Bible--"God is love." (1 John 4:8,16) Yes, God loves those he judges! Christ wept over Jerusalem, and says, "Would that you, even you, had known on this day the things that make for peace..."

18:30 and on--NO! All sin merits judgment, and that is why Christ weeps over us, and HAD to die for us. God's mercy is that He took on flesh and bore our sin! He did not overlook our sin, but bore it upon Himself!

[abacabbabacabb1]

"It's very clear in Islamic theology that God's love is conditional...the Qur'an is emphatic...'Say, if you love God, follow me, and God will love you and forgive your sins.' You see the order?...It is like the love of sinners and tax collectors who only love those who love them." -WLC

@rabidsara, the Old Testament, specifically Isaiah, does say that the Messiah will be called "Immanuel", "God with Us", and that he will be called "Almighty God" "Everlasting Father" and "Prince of Peace".

[rabidsara]

@jgoltz37 You must know about the 2 source hypothesis on the synoptic gospels (Mark/Mathew/Luke). Mark is one source for Mathew/Luke and thus explains the similarities within the two that are also in Mark, and an alternate source (Q, Quelle) explains the similarities within the two that are not present in Mark. No one even knows who Mark/Mathew/Luke really are and what relation they had to any of Jesus' disciples.

[rabidsara]

@jgoltz37 The problem is that the Gospels are NOT perfect in unity. Mark/Mathew/Luke, the oldest of the gospels are very similar. Jesus sounds very Muslim in these gospels, particularly Mark which is the oldest. Jesus prays to God, does NOT want to be sacrificed (why would he say "let this cup pass from me" or "why have you forsaken me?"), However in John he is so different. Christians always refer to John to support their claims and Muslims always refer back to Mark/Mathew/Luke, especially Mark

[rabidsara]

You believe Jesus was resurrected, and had 500 witnesses but have no proof other than your scripture. We believe Jesus did not die. I'm not trying to be offensive comparing Christianity to paganism, but if you look at the Old Testament there is no inkling that God had a son. Many places it mentions good people as sons and children of God meaning they are good people. Reading the Gospels in light of this, it sounds like Jesus is saying the same, like the Jews he is praying to God.

[rabidsara]

You can go ahead and post what Shabir said, it does not matter. The man spends his life debating that Jesus is a prophet of Allah, carried the same message as Muhammad, and that the Qur'an is the true word of God. He has had hours-long heated debates that Jesus did NOT die on the cross (see Shabir vs Mike Licona), so one slip of the tongue does not change his debates/speeches/belief.

[rabidsara]

@jgoltz37 Christian belief is that Paul and gospel writers were "inspired" by the holy spirit and thus all errors/individuality and "flavors" of each author come through, however its the Muslim belief that the Qur'an is word for word from God and has absolutely no human intervention. It is thus superior revelation. Just like how you believe Paul's Christianity nullifies the prior Jewish scripture, we belief the true sayings of Jesus and Muhammad nullify the faulty Jewish and Christian beliefs.

[rabidsara]

@jgoltz37 Of course there is contradiction, and it existed especially in the time of Paul. The followers of Jesus were Jews. I know this is not the current Christian belief, but the historical way of viewing the whole Paul movement is that Paul came along modifying the religion so that it may be more palatable to Greeks/Romans. Can you imagine having to be circumcised at an adult age, and everyone can see b/c they all go to bath houses? Even the whole idea of Gods having sons is so pagan.

[rabidsara]

@jgoltz37 No human on earth knows if they are going to heaven because we do not know the future. No one knows their good deeds are more than their bad because we are not God. Thus it is pointless to measure. We can only pray that God in His infinite wisdom and mercy will acknowledge our good deeds and forgive those of our bad deeds he sees fit. The idea is that if you KNOW your deeds are being measured you will be inclined towards good. Islam is very "Old testamenty" in this regard.

[jgoltz37]

@rabidsara :(Matthew 18:21-22) 21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times? 22Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times." - Because according to the teachings of the Jewish teachers of his day a person did not have to forgive a person more that a few times before he could enact his own form of revenge, but Peter’s question about ‘7’ being the limit was much more generous than that.