Pt 1 Toyota's Unwanted Sudden Unintended Acceleration Recall - A Tech Clash

A good theory demonstrated with regard to Toyota's Unwanted Acceleration and the need for the FCC to revisit who and what Part 15 rules apply and standards going forward in the new mobile digital video and broadband plans.
Lives are clearly at risk as the number of mobile RF transmitters doubles every 2 years and more micro-controllers are in charge of devices that could be life threatening if interfered on.

Category:

Science & Technology

Tags:

• toyota
• recall
• unwanted acceleration
• ntsb
• FCC part 15
• stuck gas pedal
• the midnight engineer
• RFI
• EMI
• unintended acceleration
• sudden acceleration

[TheMidnightEngineer]

Only Relevant Questions and Comments will be posted.

Please watch part 2 before commenting.

Thanks

[kassandrasduplex]

If "parasitic...digital radio" signals could hop wires and infect ECUs we'd have seen this demonstrated in some form or another , SUA, engine performance, emissions systems etc., on every vehicle for almost the last 30 years since ECUs went into GM cars about 1980!! This is a preposterous claim.

[TheMidnightEngineer]

Automotive computer systems in 80's were very limited. They were reactionary to mechanical function and controlled only spark advance/timing/dwell & barometer adj etc.

In late 80's & 90's they started shifting transmission and controlling fuel injectors etc

In last decade only some models (but increasing in number) have no mechanical means for throttle control and are now in control of or assisting in steering via electronic means but I say again only certain cars and many manufactures.

[kassandrasduplex]

GM had computer controlled ABS as far back as 1971.

[TheMidnightEngineer]

@kassandrasduplex Point?

What few of them their were back then were still only a mechanical brake with a pulse control to help prevent lock-up.

There is a distinct difference between electronic assisted and electronically actuated.

i.e.

Gas pedal with cable to throttle plate while electronic systems monitor manifold vacuums and adjust gas flow but NOT throttle plate.

vs

Gas pedal is a sensor tells computer it's position and computer controls the throttle plate with electronic solenoid.

[MootNews]

Parasitic analog signals were a issue in the 1990s for GM,Ford & others and they dealt with it as they still wanted to sell to Government (law enforcement) and business and amateur radio HAM operators. I don't see why digital would not present more even newer problems.

Plus the fact that the computer systems and what they control have got much more complex and control more than ever before. I do get tired of needing to turn my cell phone off before I approach a podium with a microphone.

[TheMidnightEngineer]

@MootNews Yes, The big 3 have had a share of problems in the past, they just did not make news as they were quick to react and had less to react to.

Bigger problem now is no manual control coupled with more RF devices and more complex on-board systems.

Manufactures are left to test for EMI on good faith but while some may do it, it gets harder to test for specific things as there are 10 times as many device types as 10 years ago and they only test for on-board interference like spark systems.

[OVINDEX]

How could you see this in "all" cars? Only a handfull use electronic systems for throttle control in place of a mechanical throttle.

Dude, I dont think you watched or herd anything being said here. As a ham radio operator, I know very much of this type of interference in electronic controllers. We do just as he said to stop it... SHIELD IT AND SHUNT IT TO GROUND. Never thought that it would effect cars as well but is the same electronic stuff doing different things.

[TheMidnightEngineer]

@kassandrasduplex It's been recorded already if you check the NHTSA records in engine sensors etc.

Nobody test for specific type of interference "like" a Trucker with a CB radio & amplifier and antennas that are not properly matched.

(most likely the cause of steering problems with many models with electronic servo controlled steering) But there are more scenarios than this.

I don't expect those that are not familiar or not experienced with EMI/RFI -AND- micro-controllers to understand.

[TheMidnightEngineer]

@kassandrasduplex

No claim made to throttle actuator but possible.

Insulated wire only prevent shorts. Since most of the thousands of transistors in the system trip at .5 volts, it takes so little signal to change something erroneously.

Shielded and RF shunted wires on critical systems is what is required and even some sensors.

I am sure that floor mats were a problem in some cases.

I have no interest in creating a mess of what is already messy. I am interested in saving lives.

[TheMidnightEngineer]

@kassandrasduplex Preposterous to you as you do not understand it. I only demonstrated one method and there are many.

It does not just take a DIGITAL signal and there are many forms of interference both in cause and effect. It requires that systems are properly shielded in communication & sensor wires and controllers.

It has only been of recent dates that we used "electronics only in throttle and steering" systems which makes this more dangerous if not properly RF shunted and shielded..