F sharp and G flat are not the same note - Bradley Lehman

F# is lower than Gb.

We see and hear the difference within a late 17th-century and early 18th-century tuning system (regular 1/6 comma meantone, also known as the 55-comma division of the octave).

We then adjust some of the notes upward or downward to give better usability through all keys.

This goes along with my two videos about the notes used in all 24 preludes/fugues of Bach's "Well-tempered Clavier" (book 1):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6ikS0b0p9w
http://www.youtube.com/v/BoKaDrYS1sw

Bradley Lehman, http://www.larips.com

Category:

Music

Tags:

• well
• tempered
• clavier
• tuning
• scale
• key
• temperament
• lehman
• ordinaire
• ordinary
• comma
• meantone

[shilltheshillXXX]

This is all nothing new Jimi Hendrix and Led Zeppelin used F# and G♭on several occasions. They were well aware of what they were doing!!!

[thebpl]

@shilltheshillXXX There's no claim that this is new; Bach, Handel, and their predecessors were doing this more than 250 years ago.

[nukepcr]

If those 55 divisions of the octave are equal, I think you might actually be talking about a 53 equal division, also knows as the Mercator-Holder system, which as I know, gives the two different semitone sizes just like you said: diatonic is 5 commas and chromatic is 4 commas. Correct me if I'm wrong!

[thebpl]

@nukepcr The 55-note division and the 53-note are two different things. The 53-note division has NARROW major 3rds (smaller than 5:4), and slightly wide 5ths (larger than 3:2). The 55 system has the opposite: gently wide major 3rds and narrow 5ths. My theoretical discussion here is clearly about the 55.

[anisometropie]

you say G♭ is 1 comma higher than F♯ but this is exactly the contrary.

enharmonic ♯ is always higher than ♭ !

for example is the pythagorician tuning, if A = 440 hz

C = 260,74 hz ;

D♭ = 274,69 hz ;

C♯ = 278,44 hz ;

D = 293,33 hz ;

[thebpl]

In all the regular systems that have 5ths tighter than equal temperament's (i.e. narrower than 1/12th comma of tempering), sharps are LOWER than flats. That's what is discussed here: specifically, the area around 1/6 comma tempering, or the 55-note division of the octave.

By contrast, in regular systems that have 5ths wider than equal temperament's, for example Pythagorean's pure 5ths (as you point out here), sharps are higher than flats...but these systems sound very bad on keyboards.

[pligana]

very interesting...but so difficult to understand ...shouldn't music come from the soul? it's amazing to see how many rules and numbers behind a sonata....unbelievable!

[NorrisChuckling]

"Chromatic semitones are usually not used very much within tonal music."

...excluding Jazz. Why does everyone forget the Jazz?!

As for my voice on 12-edo, I don't think it's THAT bad. I'm sure it did turn a lot of people away from classical music, since classical bears the most abuse from it, but it has its uses like any other temperament/tuning, and if the music you're playing isn't very chordal, the difference is much less noticeable.

[shilltheshillXXX]

@thebpl Well that just proves what I was sayiing. Jimi Hendrix and Jimmy Page were both guitarists rooted in American Blues Music which in turn was very much influenced by Bach, Handel, Teleman (I think Fender named an electric guitar after him), Albinoni, Scarlatti, Rameau, and Purcell: Just to name a few.

[HEAVYMETALGODS86feb9]

just gave me a idea for a ac/dc song

[stitchkaboodle999]

Thank you so much for this video. It has explained a lot that I had wondered about.

[cangjie12]

@jsmoore1 If you want to form a good major 3rd with F, Db-F (correctly spelled), then Db must be higher than C#, otherwise C#-F (wrongly spelled) will be too wide. Likewise, A-C# (correct spelling) is a good major third, but A-Db (wrongly spelled) is too wide because Db is higher than C#. Of course, on a keyboard (with equal temperament or well-temperament), there isn't such a issue...

[shiningnight73]

Great video! I think it will be very helpful to share with my piano students. Thanks.

[shiningnight73]

@pligana That soul's gotta interface with physical reality somehow if you're gonna make music.

[eaglemo08]

This is sooo confusing....

[jsmoore1]

Db higher than C#!??!?!Totally wrong...