Fr. Barron comments on Creation

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• Fr. Robert Barron
• Word On Fire
• Catholicism
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• creation
• bible

[elzoog]

Interesting given that more than %99.9 of the universe is actually hostile to human life. Also interesting that pretty much all of the matter that our bodies come from is the result of stars that violently exploded.

[wordonfirevideo]

@elzoog Why would you think that the universe revolves around human beings?! Take a look at the 40th chapter of the book of Job, especially the verses dealing with Leviathan and Behemoth.

[elzoog]

@wordonfirevideo

"Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox." More than %99.9 of the universe would also be hostile to the life of a behemoth. I would also like to point out that I would not put a bunch of toys on the floor along with a bottle of bleach and tell the 5 year old "You can play with any toy you want, but don't touch the bleach." If I really don't want the 5 year old to touch it, I would put it out of reach.

[wordonfirevideo]

@elzoog Did I say that Behemoth was the center of the universe?! The point is that God surveys and provides for all of his creation. Our sense of cosmic right and wrong is based upon a hopelessly limited vision of the whole. And what makes you think that physical death is the worst-case scenario?

[wordonfirevideo]

@caffingdu How could the one who made absolutely everything other than himself possibly be jealous?! Whatever being exists outside of God is the gift of God. And friend, I agree with you: there have been lots of bad Christians over the centuries. But bad Christians don't equate to bad Christianity.

[wordonfirevideo]

@rowanrox Thomas Aquinas holds that God is creating the universe every moment: "creatio continua."

[ndzoko]

@MrWildbill20056 I am happy that you are better informed then the people who wrote that article and whose mission it is to defend the faith. Congratulations.

[MrWildbill20056]

@ndzoko Plinus? o.O Perhaps you mean Plinius.

That aside, of course I have read it, and it is precisely as I stated: a very early reference to Christian martyrs, many of whom would have been contemporaries of the major Biblical players, save Christ.

Like I said, Clement references Peter very very early, and we have no reason to doubt his veracity.

So yes, the apologetics site is presenting a poorly made, ill informed case :)

[ndzoko]

@MrWildbill20056 Man, What fantasy. Did you really read what Plinus the younger wrote ?But it doesn`t matter, I didn`t make up that quote. If you have any qualmss as to the objectivity, look it up on you computer and tell the people , who made that christian apologetics site, how wrong they are.

[MrWildbill20056]

@ndzoko Oh and btw this objection would be interesting were it not for Eusabius explicitly referencing earlier historical records by known figures.

Further there are earlier references to Christian Martyrs, as you should well know: see Pliny the Younger, around 111 AD.

Oh and of course Clement inside the first century references Peter's martyrdom etc.

To say it all just appears in the 4th century is just wrong, plain and simple :)

[ndzoko]

@MrWildbill20056 Good for you. Have a good life.

[MrWildbill20056]

@ndzoko Simply because absolute proofs only exist in mathematics, and purely mechanical areas of science.

In every other area of research and human enquiry we simply have the best possible explanations for the phenomena we observe.

The evidence for the life of Christ, as God, is compelling.

It makes sense of the world and speaks to my heart and soul. I find no reason to disbelieve it, and every reason to accept it with open arms :)

[ndzoko]

@MrWildbill20056 Absolute proof isn't on offer I'm afraid. >>

Why not ? Doesn`t he love us so much that he came to die for us. He wants us to believe and sacrificing himself is not too much, but leaving some iirefutable evidence behind for future generations to believe, that seems a problem !! Why ?

[MrWildbill20056]

@ndzoko 1) I spectacularly doubt that the non-Christians of the world, have as a unit, take the same length of time to investigate the historical credibility of the Gospels.

Further Islam broadly acknowledges the historical value of the Gospels, to a great degree they simply put a different spin on the events recorded therein.

Absolute proof isn't on offer I'm afraid, in material terms we have evidence and we make the best, simplest explanation of what we have to hand.

[ndzoko]

@MrWildbill20056 I'm sorry, but you have fallen into the erroneous position of discarding the gospels themselves as reliable historical testimony.

Sorry to tell you, I am one of the 5 billion people on earth who fell in that erroneous position.

I am still waiting for one piece of irrefuatble evidence for the salvation story. It must be extremely difficult to produce !!

[MrWildbill20056]

@ndzoko I'm sorry, but you have fallen into the erroneous position of discarding the gospels themselves as reliable historical testimony.

Saying they don't represent evidence, is simply wishful ignorance.

That combined with extra biblical references, less so to Jesus, but more so with regards to the acts of apostles/early Christians.