robots vs luddites 1 of 2

Why would a Luddite break a machine? What is the social significance of software piracy? These questions and more are pondered in this brief discussion of the concept of the "forces and relations of production" in Industrial Revolution and the Information Revolution.

Full text at:
http://kapitalism101.wordpress.com/robots-vs-luddites/
music by a great Trio from the West Coast called "Beep". Check them out at myspace.com/beeptrio

Category:

Education

Tags:

• marx
• capital
• luddites
• machines
• robots
• forces
• and
• relations
• of
• production
• labor
• value
• class
• workers
• capitalists

[davidlkendall]

The relationship between capitalists and laborers is antagonistic. The relationship between capital and labor is not. Worker cooperatives are at least one real-world example of the fact, and this distinction is essential in applying democratic control of capital to the development of viable alternatives to capitalism. David Schweickart's book "After Capitalism" is excellent reading in this regard, and Michael Howard's "Self-Management and the Crisis of Socialism" is a good companion.

[brendanmcooney]

Curious viewers should view the ongoing discussion about this topic on my blog. I think it highlights some crucial ideas about capital. The discussion can be found on the robots vs. luddites page linked in the info box in the upper right corner of the screen.

[WSWarthog]

@WSWarthog

Which leads me to believe that the real problem is the use of industrial technology as the basis for a society because the needs of the system turns the relationship between technology and society on its head, and humanity collectively becomes merely the basis from which the needs of the system are served. Paraphrasing Slavoj Zyzek, "Capitalism functions...almost as a kind of religion. Things must expand, things must develop and even if we all go to hell it must reproduce itself".

[WSWarthog]

@WSWarthog

And a further point is that getting rid of capitalism isn't going to solve the problem, because the material and political privilege of the wealthy elite takes but a small fraction of the total productive power to maintain. At a certain point control of capital no longer means the power to summon material wealth but political, social and other more abstract types of power and so the 'class antagonisms' themselves become abstract and divorced from the practical concern of the workers.

[WSWarthog]

I think you emphasize the economic relations too much, I doubt the Luddites themselves had developed their own social or economic understanding enough to want to act on that strength alone. Although the economic and the social reality and their respective relations are important; understanding why the Luddites did what they did is not so complex. They did it because they could directly observe and were confronted with an undeniable truth, technical progress was truncating them.

[Deathrune456]

@TheUnknownPerson1100

nope, the luddite cant use slings either, it would reduce the number of soldiers on the battlefield, taking jobs away from good people :)

[TheUnknownPerson1100]

It is possible robots will win, since Luddite fists and slings are nothing against robot lasers, tanks and cruise missiles.

[ThePhenomenalmind]

This video highlights the ever increasing mechanization of the forces of production, the consequence on the social and psychological level is, of course, ever increasing alienation in social relations and estrangement from one's own sense of humanity. Enlightened rationality has been perverted by instrumental rationality the result being ethical and spiritual nihilism.

[millig5318]

Great video! Highly inventive visuals.

[laxman9677]

awesome vid!!!

[luketheduke122]

great video!