Obama on Church and State

Obama explains the importance of church-state separation in a variety of ways. What it comes down to is; In a diverse democratic society, any proposed policy must justify itself via the benefits we ALL see, rather than via arguments that only hold true to people who have one certain religious worldview. It is an honor for me to have cast my first vote as an American citizen, and my very first vote ever, in favor of this guy.


Unfortunately, Obama's presidential take on religion did not quite live up to the promise he showed in 2006:
http://tinyurl.com/ObamaReligion But even then, I think this video is very neat.

"Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason. I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God's will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all.
"Now this is going to be difficult for some who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, as many evangelicals do. But in a pluralistic democracy, we have no choice. Politics depends on our ability to persuade each other of common aims based on a common reality. It involves the compromise, the art of what's possible. At some fundamental level, religion does not allow for compromise. It's the art of the impossible. If God has spoken, then followers are expected to live up to God's edicts, regardless of the consequences. To base one's life on such uncompromising commitments may be sublime, but to base our policy making on such commitments would be a dangerous thing. And if you doubt that, let me give you an example.
"We all know the story of Abraham and Isaac. Abraham is ordered by God to offer up his only son, and without argument, he takes Isaac to the mountaintop, binds him to an altar, and raises his knife, prepared to act as God has commanded. Of course, in the end God sends down an angel to intercede at the very last minute, and Abraham passes God's test of devotion.
"But it's fair to say that if any of us leaving this church saw Abraham on a roof of a building raising his knife, we would, at the very least, call the police and expect the Department of Children and Family Services to take Isaac away from Abraham. We would do so because we do not hear what Abraham hears, do not see what Abraham sees, true as those experiences may be. So the best we can do is act in accordance with those things that we all see, and that we all hear, be it common laws or basic reason."

Full transcript of the whole thing at
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/06/the_connection_between_fait...

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[jfcool10]

Simply, well said Obama.

[thsgfbhstsbtrtsthstb]

@NOSERPICOINUTAH Setting aside the fact that your arguments are completely fallacious, I'm going to assume that I can still have a logical argument with you. You mention Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists, well maybe you should bother to read it yourself. It's only three paragraphs, I'm sure you can muster through it.

[meintsd]

The church says abortion is murder.The State says..it is a choice.I want my State and my church to be separate,but I also want the people in my State to think.... Is this right? Do the words fetus and baby make the difference? When do we ascribe a new "word" to our elderly---because they are 'inconvenient, a bother, costly, incapable of providing to a productive society?" WHEN...? Maybe when those of you posting are in diapers and unable to feed yourselves? maybe then... I pray not!

[meintsd]

It is so sad...if my wife was murdered today--5 mo pregnant....it would be considered a double homicide. BUT, if we broke up, and she went and got an abortion of a NOW unwanted baby...it is a Choice...applauded by many...all because now that precious soul isn't wanted by it's mother.  How sad??

[bmaseray]

@meintsd I think you need to read up on the Unbreakable Law of Unintended Consequences for why abortion needs to be legal.

[Salsashark516]

@meintsd At the very least, your way moves it into a realm that does not rely on supernatural rationale. From there a different debate arises, but to say "because God said," doesn't work as a logical argument. The whole murder issue is a hot one, surely debatable, and one that may never reach a firm conclusion, as from my perspective both sides make viable points. Please do not read this response as an attempt to incite a debate about abortion.

[meintsd]

How about that it is murder of a human life, just because someone doesn't want it. Is that principal enough?

[hongyewu]

LOL well said

[Hinduspy]

@NOSERPICOINUTAH Tell that to the founding fathers, who obviously saw religion as a very dividing issue and wanted to keep it out of politics. On a recent fox news survey, 95% of Americans believe religion should not play a part in politics.

[souleaterfan1234]

@thsgfbhstsbtrtsthstb tell them google treaty of tripoli

I've printed it out and memorized it to those who say Seperation of Church and state is a myth/