White Phosphorus in Gaza and "Inherent Difficulties" (Reply to SLC 1/2)

Amnesty link - http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/gaza-civilians-endangered-mil...

Report on Gaza Police - http://www.ict.org.il/Portals/0/Article/ICT-Hamas_Casualties_Operation_Cast_L...

Goldstone Report, Paragraph 410: When Mr. Said Seyam, a senior Hamas representative,269 took office as the Palestinian Authoritys Minister of Interior in April 2006, he found that he had little or no control over the Palestinian Authoritys security forces, which were put under the control of the President of the Palestinian Authority and of officials loyal to him.270 On 20 April 2006, he announced the formation of a new security force reporting directly to him. This was the Security Forces Support Unit, also known as the Executive Force (al-Quwwa al-Tanfiziyya). The new security force appears to have had a double function as both a law-enforcement agency and, at least potentially, a military force. It was officially charged with enforcing public security and protecting property. At the same time, he appointed Mr. Jamal Abu Samhadana, commander of the Popular Resistance Committees, as the head of the Executive Force271 and announced that it would be composed of 3,000 new recruits from various Palestinian armed groups, including al-Qassam Brigades.272 The newly appointed commander reportedly declared: [The Executive Force] will be the nucleus of the future Palestinian army. The resistance must continue. We have only one enemy.

Paragraph 413: The National Security force is given specific military tasks, such as the protection of the State from any foreign aggression and responsibility for the defence of the Palestinian homeland in the face of external and internal threats. It is thus plainly a military force whose members are, under international humanitarian law, combatants.

Paragraph 414: Police officers received clear orders from the leadership to face the enemy, if the Gaza Strip were to be invaded.

Transcript - http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/2009.07....

The New York Times on the IDF's dummy missile - "A new Israeli weapon, meanwhile, is tailored to the Hamas tactic of asking civilians to stand on the roofs of buildings so Israeli pilots will not bomb. The Israelis are countering with a missile designed, paradoxically, not to explode. They aim the missiles at empty areas of the roofs to frighten residents into leaving the buildings, a tactic called 'a knock on the roof.'"

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/world/middleeast/11hamas.html?_r=1&part...

I have heard that Palestinians have figured out a great way to bog down the IDF by making lots and lots of claims against it. When these claims are picked up by sympathetic observers (such as human rights organizations), the IDF is forced to examine and cross-check each one, which takes up time and resources. In short, it takes time for the IDF to respond to the claims. In the next week or so, the IDF is going to release a comprehensive response to the Goldstone Report, which makes accusations similar to those made by human rights organizations. The response will include detailed testimony and photo/video evidence to substantiate the IDF's claims.

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[steute2011]

The argument here seems to be that Hamas acted illegally and that therefore justifies the IDF acting illegally.? What I have never understood is why the air campaign? It's not like the Palestinians had any air defenses, tanks or artillery pieces. If you were trying to minimize civilian casualties, then the correct option would have been a ground invasion, were you would be able to eyeball your targets, instead of bombing a hospital with 200 civilians and maybe 5 or 10 combatants.

[oc00011]

@yairbe5 no. i think the core argument in this is the fact that israel's efforts in minimizing civilian casualties e.g. weapons technology that avoids civilian casualty etc. shouldn't be ignored. & that in extreme cases such as the scenarios of having ur civilians *targeted* by hamas with rockets, there's only so much u can do in response. & weighing all the options sometimes leads to a decision u'd hate to follow through with. ask urself what efforts in ethical consideration palestinians use.

[tarrasque420]

Great white phosphorus is noting more then a smoke screen that can burn human tissue right down to the bone.

[yairbe5]

So basecly Israel can't really be blamed for using illegal methods so long as it's doing it to counter Hamas's illegal methods?

[mbrown0315]

Okay.

[mbrown0315]

This ties into what I said about questionable translations and testimonies tailored to suit government agendas (which don't receive the same scrutiny that people, rightly or wrongly, apply to the IDF). Anyway, if the IDF presents photo and video evidence (as it says it will), it'll be hard to argue with.

[mbrown0315]

I know people who work for MEMRI; I don't see the merit in this point. If you want, get an Arabic-speaking friend to check the translations in the videos I post. I made sure to do this when I posted those two videos in my PLO video.

You've basically just said "nah-uh" to my point about government-employed translators while dismissing the evidence I bring. I'll consider the matter closed.

[mbrown0315]

Right, but when it comes to Finkelstein, his writings are all over the Google. Google Books, for example.

Saying I'm not impressed by Finkelstein does imply, however, that I think he's often mistaken. Take the beginning of my PLO video, for example.

I like his accent, though.

[SLCThunk]

I'm not sure about the rest of the world, but I don't think Israel is serious about peace.

[SLCThunk]

Like I said it's not on the interwebz, it's in a book and it's actually documented unlike the craptastic scholarship he was criticizing. Saying you're not impressed by Fink doesn't mean he's mistaken.