J. S. Bach - Chorale-Prelude "Herr Christ, der ein'ge Gottessohn" BWV 601

from Orgel-Büchlein
Ton Koopman, Organ

Orgel-Büchlein-Koopman playlist: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list...

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[bamboccionethefirst]

che confusione!

[cezig]

Trop de jeux ?? confus , le chant est noyé !

[LocusIoannis]

"were adapted to something secular over two hundred years or so and then further adapted to a choral" that should read.

[LocusIoannis]

Assuming it is the one I'm thinking of, there are some big differences, but I would expect that to happen if the tune were adapted to something secular over two hundred years or so. By the time it's taken by the Lutherans it would have changed quite a bit. It's not within the entire piece that you hear the similarities, mostly at the beginnings of phrases (again, where I would expect to find the similarities if such adaptation were going on).

[LocusIoannis]

That comment wasn't to you. I was telling the fellow that I have sung an anthem that someone arranged of this exact melody Bach is using to a text translated loosely from the German Herr Christ text. I was doing so to point out that an English text exists and is in publication, so it is likely that a current, English hymnal *somewhere* has this tune with nearly the same rhythms that Bach used in it. And thanks, but I can read the German too ;-)

[LocusIoannis]

Let me be clearer. The tune, Herr Christ, may have been derived from the tune to Mein Freud'. The sacred usage with Kreuziger's text is later than the secular usage. My point was not about texts. Corde natus as a text has been around since the 4th or 5th century, true, but I was referring to its tune, the 12th or 13 century plainsong known by the tune name Divinum Mysterium. That tune shares much similarity with this tune, regardless of text. That was my observation.

[LocusIoannis]

Possibly. I have sung an arranged version of it as an anthem to the words:

The only Son from Heaven,

Foretold by ancient seers,

By God, the Father, given,

In human shape appears;

No sphere His light confining,

No star so brightly shining

As He, our Morning Star.

I would assume it is in *some* hymnal. However, I now have impetus (having found those English lyrics) to write a hymn harmonization for it just in case I can't find one myself :-p

[LocusIoannis]

Odd . . . I thought Of The Father's Love Begotten (Corde natus ex parentis) was fairly plain in this melody. However, it's also the hymn tune Gud Faders Son Embaarne. Of course, that tune dates from the 16th Century, so your secular love song could have come before the hymn tune, but I still too much of Corde natus in there to write it off as 100% secular, and that was around pre-15th century.

[trdj2020]

Thanks again for your note. Yes, that's right, but amazingly I can't find the tune in the hymn books!

Tom

[trdj2020]

@wcbroccoli

Hi -

Thanks for your note. I have searched the Lutheran and many other hymn books and don't seem to find it anywhere. I have heard the tune was originally adopted from a baldy German street song

and have wondered if this is the reason it hasn't been included. However, I still can't believe it's not in the hymn books. Bach made such great use of the tune.

Tom Doughty

trd2020@aol.com