John Piper - What happens to infants who die?

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[CBALLEN]

@shteve77 God loves His children differently than He loves His creation,just like I love my children differently than other peoples children.God still sends rain,and comfort for His creation,gives them jobs and air to breath,doesn't kill them after their first sin ect.

[CBALLEN]

@shteve77 You can get all emotional if you like,but we must deal with scripture not your emotions,God is not a man like you think He is.Men love sin and God directs that sin.He can stop any and all sin whenever He likes,but He has a purpose for it.You seem to be angry with God because He doesn''t do what you want Him to do,so you just make up a god you like better.

[CBALLEN]

@CBALLEN All men's steps are determined by God,good,bad and in between,He rules us all and there is purpose in all evil that happens

Prov.21:1The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD; he directs it like a watercourse wherever he pleases.

God holds power over good and bad kings and rulers,He used the Assyrians to discipline Israel and other nations and then destroyed them for taking credit of all their conquering and not giving God the glory,so God then destroyed them for their haughtiness.

[CBALLEN]

@CBALLEN Proverbs 16:9 The heart of man plans his way, but the LORD establishes his

steps.Proverbs 19:21 Many are the plans in a man's heart, but it is the LORD's purpose that prevails.

Proverbs 20:24 A man's steps are directed by the LORD. How then can anyone understand his own way?

Jeremiah 10:23 I know, O LORD, that a man's life is not his own; it is not for man to direct his steps.

[CBALLEN]

@shteve77Rms 9: 22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

The goats were prepared in advance for destruction,while the sheep were prepared for glory.

[CBALLEN]

@shteve77 You still don't understand,God knew both finite groups before creation,God is not trying and failing to save the goats,He is letting them go their own way and is not interested in changing their hearts,they will be examples that He will pour His wrath out on and send to Hell in front of those that He chose to set His love on before time.He has plenty of wrath saved up for these,from the time of the flood until the last day,He created them for the day of evil.

[shteve77]

@CBALLEN You still didn't tell me who the World is in Jn12:47 or why In Ez33 God tells us that His preference for people (who He has allready decreed to perish in Hell), is for them to repent & live?

[shteve77]

@CBALLEN What you are really saying is that God imposed Irresistible Evil on people by omnipotent, sovereign decree, causing them to sin so that we could see how much God hates the sin that He caused! This is nonsense. Scripture declares God is light and that there is no darkness in Him. The God of Calvinism is full of darkness, He is the source and cause of all sin.

[shteve77]

@CBALLEN 2Peter2:1 says otherwise "But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves."

The people in Hell while Jesus walked the Earth did not benefit because unlike the people of old like Abraham etc, those people did not have faith in God.

[shteve77]

@CBALLEN 1 Tim 2:4 makes it very clear "God our Savior, 4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men" It doesn't say "some of all types of men", it says "all men"

Heb2:9 says Christ tased death for EVERYONE.

[shteve77]

@CBALLEN Tell me what does the statement "God is love" actually mean to a Calvinist. How can God be love if He hates most of mankind? The Bible doesn't say God is loving towards some it says He IS love. Further to that God tells us to love our enemies. In Calvinism He holds us to a higher standard than He expects of Himself.

[Disciple1818]

@SeedsOfHatred No, I try not to be prideul; I desire to boast in the Lord- I must become less and He, Jesus, must become greater. I find joy not in my own self but in God and His Truth.

[CBALLEN]

Romans 8:7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.

Arminian 8:7 the sinful mind is not hostile to God. It does submit to God's law, and it can it do so.

[CBALLEN]

1Cor 2:14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Armin 2:14 The man without the Spirit does accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are not foolishness to him, and he can understand them, because they are notspiritually discerned.

[CBALLEN]

Romans 9:16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

Arminian 9:16 It does not depend on God's mercy but on man's desire and effort.

John 1:13children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

Arminian 1:13 children born not of natural descent, but of human decision and a husband's will, with a little help from God.

[CBALLEN]

John 10:26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.

Arminianism 10:26 you are not my sheep because you do not believe.

Act 13:48... and all who were chosen for eternal life became believers.

Arminianisn 13:48 ...and all who became believers were chosen for eternal life.

Ephesians 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love

Armin 1::4 For we chose Him before the creation of the world....

[CBALLEN]

@shteve77Romans 9 :15 “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f] 16 It does not, therefore, (depend on human desire or effort), but on God’s mercy.So man's "choice" plays no part in it,the thing is,no natural man desires Christ,so if one does desire Christ it's because God has regenerated him and has granted him belief.

[CBALLEN]

@shteve77Romans 9: 22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

Those who go to Hell are examples to God's elect of how bad sin is and how awful Hell is that He saved them from.

[CBALLEN]

The bottom line is,not one person who Jesus died for will be in Hell,He accomplished the salvation of all His sheep on the cross and took all the wrath of God for all their sins.God still has plenty of wrath left for the wicked,so Jesus was NOT a propitiation for them.There were people in Hell while Jesus walked the Earth,did His sacrifice do them any good?

[CBALLEN]

Romans 9 tells us that God's will is irresistible 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

 19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?”

The question is then how can God hold us accountable since no one can resist His plan,well who are you O MAN to say to God you don't like how He';s made you,He is the potter and can do what He wants to do with His clay.He saves who He chooses.

[CBALLEN]

@shteve77 Verses like 2 Peter 3:9 is also speaking to the beloved or believers about God's elect.Peter is telling them that Jesus will return when all the believers have been born and converted,that's why He's being patient.It makes no sense to say that God is patiently waiting for the finite number of goats that He knew before time wouldn't be saved,God is not senile,He knew both the sheep and the goats before creation.God knows everything and all things happen just as He has planned.

[CBALLEN]

@shteve77 One thing Arminians don't get is when the Disciples are speaking to believers they say things they don't say to mixed crowds,that's why they're not running around telling everyone Jesus loves them all and wants to save them all.Eph 1: 4-11 Paul is telling the Ephesian believers that God loved them and chose them before the foundation of the world for salvation,just as they all do when speaking to believers,non-believers are told Jesus died for sinners and all who believe will be saved.

[shteve77]

@CBALLEN You didn't comment on John12:47. Who is the World in John 12:47 that Christ says He came to save? And why in Eze33 does God say that it is His preference for the wicked to live when you say He always intended and created then so they would perish?

[shteve77]

@CBALLEN Sorry, but it doesn't say Christ "tasted death for everyone of His sons". It says everyone. Full Stop.

[shteve77]

@CBALLEN The context of Phil1, is suffering. This verse is simply saying that God has not only provided us with the opportunity to trust Him but also to suffer for Him. The word "granted" (Greek: echaristhe) means "grace" or "favour." Both the opportunity to suffer for Him and to believe on Him are favours with which God has graced us. No one would argue from this verse that suffering is an immediate & irresistible work of grace but, that is what Calvinists argue it teaches about faith.