Lunch&Taxes HOWITWORKS

A FairTax Rep and a US Tax Code Rep answer tax questions over lunch. "HOW DOES YOUR TAX PLAN WORK?"

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[FairTaxHub]

Posts including profanity and personal attacks have been and will continue to be removed.

FairTaxHUB is meant to push the FairTax conversation forward. The FairTax idea is powerful and would revolutionize this country economically and by extension socially. The current system is punishing work ethic and ambition...the very things a slowing economy needs more of. We at the HUB are not focused on what the tax percentage is or if government taxes its own services. Its the overall idea we need.

[NAGGERNUTZ]

What keeps them from raising prices is called free market capitalism. Competition in the marketplace. That's what holds prices down. A prime example is Wal Mart. Wal Mart started their $4.00 prescription drug program, which forced others to follow. Every business in the country will be jockeying for a larger market share by keeping their prices low.

[djtyg]

A better analogy could have been used with the lunch itself. As they're explaining to the lady the tax, they take away 1/4 of her food. They explain that that 1/4 is going to the federal government. It's a lot more than the 15% she's used to having taken away. Then you show a rich man ordering a buffet. He still gets 1/4 of his food taken away, leaving him with still large buffet. If she asks for his food, he calls her a Socialist and kicks her in the face. Not a very fair tax!

[FairTaxisaLie]

then, you "bring home everything you make"-- business still has to pay the same as before except for 7.65% of wages, just giving it all to you instead of gov. The MAX savings, in extreme cases, would be 7.65% (biz with no costs except wages). So items now cost= (100%-7.65%)*30%, or 120.55% of what they cost before, and again, that is only the BEST case scenario of wages =100% of cost.

The trick comes in supporters counting taxes TWICE: must consider them embedded or paid by workers, not both.

[FairTaxisaLie]

Think this through to see why the "embedded taxes" argument is false-- if one considers taxes as embedded in the price item (rather than seeing them as something paid at different rates from embedded WAGES by workers), If you state prices with tax will basically not rise because of "embedded taxes" removal-- thus your paycheck stays the SAME as now-- how are "criminals" paying taxes-- your check is the same, items cost same.

Answer: YOU are still paying by your paycheck staying the same. DOH!

[FairTaxisaLie]

The "things cost less" line is disengenuous at best-- if everyone "keeps their whole paycheck", then the only savings for most business is the amount they pay in as FICA share-- 7.65% of wages. Things might be slightly less-- 2-3% maybe... then a 30% e/23%i tax is tacked on.

[FairTaxisaLie]

@MerlinYoda "their lifetime utilities show a positive percentage change"

Hopefully you have realized the trick they are pulling there to get the middleclass to positive utilities, as evidenced in TABLE 13-- they have the "lifetime utilities" go up by having the middleclass persons (or data points) falling into poverty every few years. I posted a several part explanation of this fudging of data by the researchers on the other video.

[TXFairTaxer]

@Diskatopia Living in a fantasy world sure sounds like fun, but I fully understand the FairTax exactly how it is written. Go read the rebuttals and you'll have a better understanding of it too. fairtax,org/rebuttals

[MerlinYoda]

@DiskTopia From the very page 30 you note: "Let’s assume, nevertheless, that a household that belongs to a given income category in 2007

will remain in the same category over the next 24 years. Table 9 shows that, were we to make

that unrealistic assumption, five out of seven household groups would gain under the FairTax;

their lifetime utilities show a positive percentage change."

The chart shows that, even with absurd assumptions that are stacked against the FairTax, 5 of 7 *still* benefit!

[Diskatopia]

@TXFairTaxer And your next claim after reading page 30 on will be that "it states 'utility' (well-being) of almost everyone improves!" At that point I will point you to Table 13, and tell you to note the trick they do in years 7-8 and 15-16 to fudge the data so they can claim "nearly everyone improves"-- they have the utility of the person whose income DROPS from around $40,000 a year to less than $10,000 a year go UP. When you understand Table13, you will realize the whole "Fairtax" is a scam.

[Diskatopia]

@TXFairTaxer Nope, you clearly know nothing about the research that SUPPORTERS' own site touts. Go to tinyurl 593htl, read page 30 on, and you will see-- it is not a debateable point, that is the research ON THEIR OWN SITE at fairtax.org. No one has refuted the claim because they can't, it is very clear for those who are not to lazy to go and see. If you go there and read, you will see, otherwise you will keep falling for the "Fair" Tax scam.

[TXFairTaxer]

@Diskatopia That is incorrect. You're providing false and misleading information. No research that I have ever seen from AFFT (or any other pro-FairTax related organization) shows that. What you're seeing is skewed information provided by people like Bruce Bartlett and Lawrence Vance, and websites like FactCheck. Their claims have all been refuted multiple times over the past 4 years.

If you would take the time to learn about the FairTax on your own, you might understand that.

[Diskatopia]

There really is no debate, as Americans For Fair Taxation's OWN RESEARCH states this fact: the "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka NASTI would on average raise the effective taxes (i.e. raise the amount of taxes they pay) of those making from around $15,000 to $150,000 ,and would on average lower the taxes paid by those who make more than $150,000 a year. It is a very bad idea, and would destroy the US economy if enacted. Thankfully it never will even be considered for a vote.