WTF 219: following the bouncing PinHeadNutBalls
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chaos is entropy. entropy kills us.
epshot 1 month ago
INMENDHAM FOR PRESIDENT!!!
pacifiedfools 1 month ago
@qerguil
Cool. I will, thanks. Is it on this channel? On this page?
Domzdream 1 month ago
@BeardedBill86 You know this argument could have been used during surfdom against things like representative democracy and republicanism, right? Just because something is currently not in fashion doesn't mean it is an incorrect or invalid idea. I shouldn't have to explain that an argument based on popularity is fallacious, it should be common sense.
Also, anarcho-primitivism is something one could call dated, but most anarchists are in favour of progression of society. You made a straw-man.
AnarchistOpposition 1 month ago
@BeardedBill86 As for your question, there actually have been a few noteworthy examples of anarchy in action: the anarchist communes during the Spanish Revolution, the May-June Revolt in France, The Paris Commune, occupations of Italian auto factories, and so on, all of which added some depth to anarchist theory.
Even if there were no valid examples it wouldn't mean the idea can't be taken into consideration. At one time representative democracy was thought to be impossible, chaos, etc.
AnarchistOpposition 1 month ago
@BeardedBill86 1. Of many kinds. Have you ever actually sat down and written a book on anarchism written by an anarchist? It really seems like you haven't because you don't seem to understand what anarchism is.
2. What? A baby has no preference in this. The point was that if something is personal capable of making the choice's best interest that very often he will make said choice, especially when the result is clear such as in the case of roads and such.
AnarchistOpposition 1 month ago
meow...i want chicken. i want liver. meow mix meow mix please deliver. LOL
cydonianman 1 month ago
@AnarchistOpposition History, anarchism has had plenty of opportunities to arise as a strong and successfull model and it simply hasn't succeeded due to its inherent flaws.
If anarchism was so successfull and attractive a concept to human beings we'd see it far more widespread and successfull, but we don't see that do we? And since anarchism is not a post-modern societal model but rather quite an old and dated model for society, it's hardly bringing anything new to the table.
BeardedBill86 1 month ago
@AnarchistOpposition
1. Of what kind? They seem far from it.
2. Ofcourse you need to force it on people, do you think you can stick a baby in the middle of a political chart and ask it which one it likes the look of? There's no reasonable way to do it otherwise, people can't exist outside of a society until they're old enough to decide for themselves.
I have a question for you, why have there been no noteworthy or lasting anarchist societies in human history?
BeardedBill86 1 month ago
@BeardedBill86 Countries have been invaded and conquered throughout history. There are simply many more factors involved than political ideology. When fascist German invaded previously democratic countries did that prove that fascism is automatically stronger?
So "united we stand, divided we fall" is true, and therefore we need to force it on people?
1. Anarchists are in favour of organization.
2. We need to force something good on people? What? Won't they choose it on their own if preferable?
AnarchistOpposition 1 month ago
@AnarchistOpposition Because only non-anarchist societies exist today, the few that have existed have been annexed by non-anarchist and therefore stronger societies.
Non-anarchist societies have clear advantages over anarchist societies, the old mantra "united we stand, divided we fall" is true, groups will always be more powerfull than individuals, even tribes are a group of individuals working together to survive and that's simply alot more problematic without enforced social contracts.
BeardedBill86 1 month ago
@BeardedBill86 I didn't say it was totally impossible for anarchists to have nukes, did I? Personally I would rather have them disarmed but I might be a minority in that opinion, I'm not going to speak for everyone.
I never said my goal is to make the entire world anarchist. That's a rather preposterous goal: Freedom is so important that we're going to force it on everyone!
No. That's silly. Why would non-anarchist societies have the advantage? You didn't explain that, just asserted it.
AnarchistOpposition 1 month ago
@AnarchistOpposition So what happens to all the nukes that still exist? And how do you get the entire world to adopt anarchism? Because if just one society doesn't that society is going to have major advantages over the anarchist ones.
BeardedBill86 1 month ago
@BeardedBill86 I can't imagine an anarchist society wanting nukes, but if they did they would probably have some sort of election to determine who has authorization rights. This individual would need to be recallable and non-professionalized, though, in order for it to remain anarchist in nature.
As for roads and power plants, self-management has proven effective for automobile production (assembly) in Italy, so why can it not work in other areas as well?
AnarchistOpposition 1 month ago
@AnarchistOpposition I think it's overly optimistic to believe that humans can achieve anything like we have now with some sort of trust based mutual cooperation system, plus it'd be entirely unregulated, an anarchist system is simply not feasable with the current level of technology we have, who gets to sit on the nukes? Who runs the power plant? Who takes care of the road systems? And so on.
BeardedBill86 1 month ago
@BeardedBill86 My phrasing was bad. I didn't mean to suggest that the oppression is a result of mutual co-operation. Better wording: The real question is: do things like industrial technology, modern health-care, and large-scale infrastructure require systems of oppression or can they be achieved through other means such as mutual cooperation?
Primitivists and green anarchists suggest that technology and civilization requires oppression while other anarchists assert otherwise to varying degrees
AnarchistOpposition 1 month ago
@AnarchistOpposition I think communism answered that question.
BeardedBill86 1 month ago
@BeardedBill86 If a way of life is completely dependent on people being oppressed then anarchists would oppose that lifestyle. The real question is if things like industrial technology, modern health-care, and large-scale infrastructure are possible without oppression as a result of mutual co-operation. There are anarchists on both sides of this, on one side most anarchists, on the other, primitivists.
This is still an entirely different argument from the one Inmendham brought up, though.
AnarchistOpposition 1 month ago
meow...meeowww....MEOWWWWWW!!!!
sithlordaxel 1 month ago
@AnarchistOpposition Last time I debated this with an anarchist he reffered to Ireland back when it had a sort of stable anarchist society before it got invaded.
That worked back then, because societies were simple and not inter-linked, anarchy fails now unless we want to give up all of the things an interlinked society enables for us, such as healthcare, large scale infrastructure efforts and so on.
BeardedBill86 1 month ago
Poor Santino! His little plaintive wail before you said "Talk to the hand!" got to me.
TehHermgirl 1 month ago
Anarchists simply don't say that they want chaos. The way your argument currently functions, claiming that it's common sense that chaos doesn't work and thus anarchism is flawed, is a straw-man. If you want to mount a "chaos doesn't work" argument then you first must demonstrate to us that what anarchists advocate would be equal or roughly equal to chaos. Since you haven't done so and the vast majority of anarchists oppose chaos this argument is fail.
AnarchistOpposition 1 month ago
Just because the government has the power to take from everyone by force doesn't make it right. Anarchism is not chaos.
DeterministicOne 1 month ago
@ParkwayDriveHorizons Okay, I suppose. I do not think it is a contradiction to own a gargoyle. It is art, regardless of what their original purpose. Some churches look nice, though I have little love for what inspired them.
Voidsworn 1 month ago
@Voidsworn not commenting on hypocisy just enjoying the contradiction
ParkwayDriveHorizons 1 month ago