How Deep The Father's Love For Us - Phillips, Craig, and Dean

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son.

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[LordFhalkyn]

What should I gain from His reward?

I cannot give an answer.

But this I know, with all my heart.

His wounds have paid my ransom.

[jive0in]

really though.. ever stop to think about it... why the heck should WE gain ETERNAL LIFE when there was only one person in the history of everything who earned it? and he LOVED US with a ridiculous amount of passion, sooo much that he bore the worst pain that the sickest human mind could conceive. all for billions upon billions of people, when he knew we would all spit in his face and ignore him. honestly. "love" doesnt adequately describe his feelings for us. i just feel so humbled by that line.

[nbs204]

@bariuspelagic no you didnt, im not dismissing everything you said, you are dismissing this simple question :P literally, all i ask, is to tell me a statement, one sentence, that you consider proven? please? i do honestly have a point...

[bariuspelagic]

@nbs204

I answered your question. Just because you don't like the answer, or find it too complex, doesn't mean you can brush it aside like it never happened.

If you're going to become evasive and try to twist meanings then I think this discussion is over.

It was fun, stay well.

[nbs204]

@bariuspelagic you didnt answer my question. please engage with me. i asked you to name something that you consider proven or true...?

[bariuspelagic]

@nbs204

Faith that a complex deity with particular traits that hands down laws and commandments and saves souls after death of the body, is a much more extra-ordinary claim. Such a claim must necessarily require equally extra-ordinary evidence.

[bariuspelagic]

@nbs204

Again further, it is possible to have varying levels of faith. A caveman could have faith that the ground will remain beneath his, even though he cannot prove it. However, that faith would not be extra-ordinary since the caveman and all his cave-buddies have been walking on the ground all their lives.

[bariuspelagic]

@nbs204

In any case, 'faith' is not a virtue as I've explained previously.

Further, you're not going to get very far with me by trying to twist the meanings of words. We may all have faith in something at some time in our lives, but that in no way supports your supposition that a deity exists. The two are unrelated.

[bariuspelagic]

@nbs204

To say we 'cannot access proof' is an opinion, not a statement of fact. Our minds can very much understand proof. Just because you don't think we can doesn't make your statement true. If God is all-powerful and all-knowing then he knows how to prove it to us and can do so. The fact that no proof exists for Yahweh is not a limitation of our minds, it is simply evidence that no such deity exists.

[nbs204]

@bariuspelagic you seem to have missed my point..... there IS no proof! that was my point, our human minds cannot access proof in any real way, we only have the ability to have faith, never to proove. so my point is not that there is proof for God, but that there isnt.... faith is believing in something without proof, you are correct in saying that. we all have faith in something.... for instance, name something that you would consider true or proven?

[bariuspelagic]

@nbs204

So I ask you, what proof can you give me that could not apply equally to another Deity or to simple delusion? Show me this proof and I will believe.