Order VS Chaos

idealology in science fiction

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[SgtHydra]

If you notice, you have both race's favorites opposing the other.

Shadows had been considering humanity to be their protege over the Centauri, Vorlons did the same for Minbari. In the background, each race is trying to get the other's apprentice over to their side (this is especially noticable with Kosh, less so with Mr. Morden, since Delenn basically detected evil on the guy, but still)

Minbari confronts the Shadows, Humans confront the Vorlons.

Brilliant writing, eh?

[ScutigeraColeoptrata]

@Tearvon True, but the Shadows also manipulated the younger races with conspiracy and technology, so neither side really has the moral high ground. I do think the Vorlon philosophy is however more appealing to most civilizations, as prior to these events the Vorlons seem to have had somewhat good relations with younger races, in contrast to the Shadows and their servants which were viewed as boogymen.

[antiprozacnation]

the very symbol of cult series ... why is everyone always bent on the destruction of darkness ... the shadows might be a bit fanatic in their belief that progress only comes from conflict, but the vorlons are just as bad and ruthless pushing their own agenda

[InsurrectionistFungi]

@RockyH2

For a while I was more behind the Vorlons than the Shadows, until after my second full sequential viewing of the series. I mean, I understood that neither side were good or evil, but yeah, I think people tend to get in line with the Vorlons because theirs seems less violent, until they bring out their guns.

But, it's awesome that B5 encourages actual thinking with it, instead of telling you "this person is right" or whatever. I have a sort of reluctant support of the Shadows' method.

[RockyH2]

@InsurrectionistFungi

Another good point. Yeah, that's what I liked so much about Babylon 5. In the end, neither the Shadows or the Vorlons could be defined as being "good" or "evil", but perhaps misguided.

I used to cheer a lot for the Vorlons in the series, until I found out that they destroyed an entire planet and killed so many people. I remember feeling quite disillusioned back then. They were nothing different from the Shadows. It was quite an amazing plottwist. :)

[RockyH2]

@InsurrectionistFungi

Good point. It really seems that both Shadow and Vorlon technology has developed and grown around their respective ideologies.

A Vorlon fleet feels orderly and efficient, with each ship individually being very powerful.

A Shadow fleet feels chaotic and fear inducing/demoralizing, focusing on superior numbers instead.

Out of all the science fiction shows I've seen, both Shadows and Vorlons are my favorite races.

[RockyH2]

@jeffman52001

Yeah, the Shadows respected Lorien and it makes very much sense the Vorlons did so as well.

Still, both Vorlons and Shadows had the technology to destroy each other's homeworlds, but given the huge amount of ships both races possessed, it makes me wonder if either side would have been able to even reach each other's world at all.

[InsurrectionistFungi]

Anyone else notice that each race's planet killers were quite representative of their philosophies? The Vorlons' planet killer delivered swift, hard punishment, whereas the Shadows'was very brutal and in a way, more excruciating and painful. Heh, nice symmetry there.

[InsurrectionistFungi]

@jeffman52001

I think, that in their own way, the Shadows stayed more true to their ideology in the end. The Vorlons did too, but they just expected the younger races to stand by and do nothing, and be good little lapdogs or whatever. Or maybe I'm just overplaying the good of the Shadows and the bad of the Vorlons. :3

[jeffman52001]

When Captain Sheridan said to the Vorlons about that they had the technology to destroy Z'ha'dum, the reason I think the Vorlons didn't attack Z'ha'dum is cause of Lorien being there and it is out of respect for Lorien since Lorien was living on Z'ha'dum. Lorien was around when the Shadows and Vorlons were infant races.

[jeffman52001]

@InsurrectionistFungi I agree with what you said the Shadows were not evil, just misguided like the Vorlons. They got too wrapped up in their own ideology, forgot that their purpose was to help the younger races.

[jeffman52001]

@Cassadinegirlaz Liked hearing the Shadow speak, finally.