schielhau counter from Talhoffer.wmv

An interpretation of two plates from Talhoffer's 1467 fechtbuch. Interesting as it displays a counter to the formidable schielhau.

Please do ignore the typos and wrong date in the titles.

Category:

Sports

Tags:

• Talhoffer
• longsword
• sword
• WMA
• KdF
• schielhau
• scheilhai
• leichtenauer
• liechtenauer

[dg2clarke]

It is a counter to the schielhau. The person attacking is cutting a schielhau...although it might not be perfectly clear. I do intend on refilming this one.

[dg2clarke]

While it is true that Uber means above and Fallen means fall, Uberfallen is in fact one word. Even in modern German Uberfallen can mean Ambush or Raid. So it's one word that looks like it's made of two. Like 'carpet' etc.

[dg2clarke]

I think what we are seeing is the two models being drawn by the artist, and they simply swap roles from one to the next. One of them may even be Talhoffer.

They didn't have fencing masks that we enjoy today. It *may* be possible that he is doing the schnappen to the shoulder so as not to accidentally split the other guy's face right open.

But who am I to say? I could be well wrong and the way it's shown may just be the way we are supposed to do it.

[dg2clarke]

The below was also posted by Djemps.

Well, the original verse says 'Schiel to the point and take the throat without fear' when using it against Pflug. If I were to be striking a schielhau against a buffel, then if I start in right vom Tag, then I would end up striking his right shoulder.

We should have done a couple fo things slightly differently though. The schielhau should technically have ended in the upper hengen, and the schnappen should have landed on the other guy's shoulder.

[dg2clarke]

Hi Guys, I think this is a great video and shows a good understanding of the Talhoffer material. Just simple things like the fact that the illustrations swap 'sides' between plates to better show the completed technique can be very confusing at first. My only question is about how the Schielhau is being thrown. My understanding is that the Schiel is meant to pass the center line and hit the opposite shoulder. So if you threw a Schiel from R Vom Tag shouldn't it strike near the left shoulder?

[dg2clarke]

This is an edit of the old version.

Djemps wrote:

OOOPS. I meant, if you throw a Schielhau from Right Vom Tag you would hit your opponent'st RIGHT shoulder. My mistake.

[JohnRaptor]

From the title, I was expecting to see a technique to counter a shielhau. Either way, good video.

[TheBurtonian]

Nice interpretation, simillar to mine. But The word on the second plate is überfallen i´ll believe. I believe it would be translated to more like falling over and I interpret it indeed as a schnappen like move but then a throw by the neck otherwise I pretty much do it like you do!

[Djemps]

Thanks for adding my comments to your updated version. I hadn't even noticed that you were countering to the head instead of the shoulder like in the artwork. I can understand why since the head is such a tasty target. Also, isn't it odd that Talhoffer's man in the hat is throwing the Scielhau on the first page and then is shown as the one doing the counter?