Gareth Thomas MP on Global Democracy and the Left

Speaking at the Unlock Democracy fringe at the Compass Conference on 9 June 2007, Gareth Thomas MP answers the question 'Does the left in Government have a duty to promote democracy worldwide?'. 3 of 4.

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• labour
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• democracy
• gareth
• thomas

[HKLivingston]

>

Whether or not democracy in Iraq is limited to the 'bourgeoisie' is a point which is best discussed separately, and which is not necessarily relevant to the oxymoron pointed out.

[HKLivingston]

>

I do get what you are trying to say --notwithstanding its merits or lack thereof-- and I am pointing out that the two words--'impose' and 'democracy'--used together constitute an oxymoron (which--needless to say--further weakens the argument).

Neither

1 people <b>demanding</b> right of suffrage, nor

2 the granting of limited right of suffrage

constitutes <b>freedom</b> that is <b>imposed</b>.

In fact, if something is 'demanded' it shows that it was not 'imposed'.

. . .

[HKLivingston]

The oxymoron remains: by definition, while 'free(dom)' can be granted or one can seek to limit it, it cannot be 'imposed'/'forced upon'.

Support for a coup d'etat does not prove your 'point'--on the contrary, a coup d'etat is a negation of an otherwise freely-elected government.

1 impose

2 democracy

3 oxymoron

[DrMontague]

Western governments watch other bourgeoisie democracies. e.g. in third world if a government is elected that the West doesn't like they will usually back a coups d'état.

[DrMontague]

I don't think you grasp what I'm getting at. The industrial revolution (under the confines of capital) in Britain brought in its wake a demand by the people (of their own country)for parliamentary democracy. The government wasn't overthrown, it started with middle class getting the vote, then working class men and eventually women, it was a gradual evolution. In Iraq they have tried to impose bourgeoisie democracy, in Chile the west supported its removal.

[HKLivingston]

m-wdotcom:

1 impose

2 democracy

3 oxymoron

[DrMontague]

?????????????????

[HKLivingston]

'impose democracy'--<b>impose</b> upon freedom upon a country's citizens, <b>compelling</b> them to vote their conscience or preferences, <b>without regard</b> for ... for ...

[DrMontague]

Democracy has been imposed on Iraq but not on The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

[DrMontague]

He should be saying Bourgeois Democacy. Democracies and dictatorships are imposed on third word countries as long as they are in the interest of western capital.