Holocaust survivor Szymon Srebnik returns to Chełmno (1985)

For speakers of Polish/French: part of the late Szymon (or Shimon) Srebnik's return to Chełmno nad Nerem in Poland, near the old site of the death camp of which he was one of two survivors, from Claude Lanzmann's monumental film 'Shoah' (1985). This is a response to the suggestion from some on YouTube that there's never been anti-Semitism in Poland. Even as the villagers welcome Srebnik back, some hint at a possible justification for the Holocaust.

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[MIHALIS888]

so what if there was antisemitism in Poland? There was antisemitism when Shakespeare wrote "merchant of Venice"... But there are also people who hate Americans, people who hate Germans (killed 12 mil of them after the WW2...), people that hate blacks, communists, people that hate those who support a different football team etc. There's so much hate to go around! Why is hating Jews different? Stalin killed 20 mil of his hated rivals. But that doesn't qualify as the biggest crime of modern time?

[RussMoxham]

Anti-Semitism is never a 'so what', anywhere, in my opinion. Nor is any of these other forms of prejudice. They're only a 'so what' for people who don't face them or don't have the compassion to care. But if (if) you read the info, it's clear I've posted this stuff in response to YouTube comments to the effect that there has never been Polish anti-Semitism. Of course there has, just because there's prejudice everywhere.

[MIHALIS888]

@RussMoxham

Before I commented I read your info n your profile. Now using irony with "if"s is just typical in youtube! Everyone thinks is right. You call on prejudice but u yourself are prejudiced. U invented a rule: "everyone who comments unfavorably on antisemitism hasn't faced prejudice or is insensitive". This rule self-servingly makes u appear like a victim of prejudice or a sensitive person hiding the fact that you are the attacker. Because u know nothing about me but you pre-judged me.

[RussMoxham]

To me this is just humanity. I don't care where the heck someone comes from or what kind of building they do or don't worship in. If they don't have a problem with me and don't want me dead, why should I have ill feelings toward them?

[RussMoxham]

The main point is that anti-Semitism is not about dealing with individuals. It's about compartmentalising people and saying they're Jews, they must be... whatever. I don't care. They're people. We're all people. We all get up, eat, drink, sleep, maybe have fun and a couple of kids at some point. All this other hate stuff is just so much nonsense, whoever is doing it, and whoever is the victim.

[zentrallondon]

Of course there were Anti-Semitic incidents, and few pogroms after the war, but lets try to remember the good things, like the amount of Poles in Righteous among Nations(1st place), Poland created the biggest anti-nazi movement in occupied Europe, underground Gov. created ZEGOTA the only gov. scheme helping Jews, French surrounded straight away and pack all the Jews to trains to Auschwitz...

[RussMoxham]

@magyar369 I'd say they were quite effective, but thankfully not as effective as they'd have liked. Send my regards to the Arrow Cross Party. And then put all the members in a death camp, if you like.

[mister8master]

@RussMoxham - maybe we have different definitions of what`s "antisemitic", but story is just a story. The people going outside of the church were asked some questions, they just told what they saw and i don`t know why to not belive them.

That were extreme times, some Jews hoped to save thier lives collaborating with nazis, in ghettos were Judenrats and Jewish police, maybe that rabbi was also collaborating. Still no idea what`s "antisemitic" about telling such storyies.

[mister8master]

@RussMoxham - how so? What`s so "antisemitic" about the majority of these people?

No idea how it can excuse holocaust, either it was some urban legend or just some insane preacher.

[mister8master]

@RussMoxham - come on...

You said "And no crime of any Soviet Jew has anything to do with the Holocaust one way or another." - i ment "they" - the soviets, including soviet Jews.

[RussMoxham]

Thank you for commenting again, mister8master, but I think you made a few too many points too quickly for me to understand you at the end there. Who are 'they'? ;)

[RussMoxham]

What I mean is that the story itself is effectively anti-Semitic. The townspeople don't look at it very critically. They certainly don't protest.

In any case, I think Srebnik's face says more than I can about this. To me, he looks very comfortable in the company of these people at the end of the clip. Yet earlier he's seemed quite comfortable and even laughed a little. Mostly what separates the two is a story about a rabbi who supposedly thought the Jews were to blame for the Holocaust...

[RussMoxham]

mister8master, I'm not necessarily saying this speaker is anti-Semitic, unless at least the majority of the townspeople are. Yes, he is only quoting a story... but it effectively excuses the Holocaust. It is attributed to a (nameless?) rabbi who supposedly thinks the Jews have brought genocide upon themselves by not being Christian. I strongly doubt that this rabbi existed, if only for the reason that rabbis were not in the habit of going around saying Jews deserved to be exterminated.

[mister8master]

"anything that reflects badly on Poland ..."

Than what else is?

Whatever if that story is true or not, it`s said by a witness, if you call him "antisemite" than i`m confused about what "antisemitism" is at all...

[mister8master]

Don`t remember what you`re reffering to since you deleated my comment... but i can`t remember myselve excusing ANY murders.

I just say what i`ve heard in that video, call it "antisemitism" or whatever, that`s what is said in it by a witness.

But of course they had alot to do with many pogroms organised by the soviets, some of which had to serve as an excuse for the occupation, most notably Kielce pogrom. Not to mention that the very same soviets were Hitler`s allies until 1941...

[RussMoxham]

Misyu44, I know the Nazis were in charge of the camps, and that there were actually some Jewish 'capos' who did some of the work for the Nazis, hoping this would save them. I expect there were also Slavic and Roma capos, etc., too.

None of this changes the fact that there clearly have been pogroms in Poland (one is too many, I think) or that some people (for some reason) choose to deny this completely. That's all.

I'm British, but I don't deny the worst of the empire or the slave trade.

[RussMoxham]

Misyu44, there is a limit to how long a clip can be and this is a clip I particularly wanted to upload. Because I am of the opinion that in many ways the attitude of the crowd here, and the story of the repentant rabbi (who I don't believe can ever have existed as more than a popular myth--something like an urban legend) , either are anti-Semitic or at least hint at popular anti-Semitism.

Anyhow it's really not adequate to say that anything that reflects badly on Poland is polonophobic.

[Misyu44]

@RussMoxham

And why don't you upload all the talk and just the monologue of this guy in glasses?

This is video what they are discussing 10 minutes earlier.

:

watch?v=alns85evKQo

This is disgrace and anti-polonism.

[RussMoxham]

hminkema, please don't pretend you know about my intellectual background. If you want to discuss prepositional logic with me, OK, but most people here don't. At most, they want logical comments.

I don't think you're in a position to say that what seems to me to be present in this clip is pure imagination or whatever, unless you mean there is no physical reality at all.

Plus I don't want to explain everything, because in my view it is the clip that is supposed to matter.

[RussMoxham]

mister8master, do you honestly think this rabbi existed? Do you think there was some rabbi walking around in Poland saying the Holocaust was all the fault of the Jews, because they weren't Christians?! It seems clear to me that is a MYTH, an EXCUSE.

And no crime of any Soviet Jew has anything to do with the Holocaust one way or another.

You excuse murder if you like. I do not.

[mister8master]

"all peoples in all countries could acknowledge the darker aspects of their histories" - very well, when will Jews acknowladge the crimes made by the soviet Jews?

No idea if it was translated, that man said what he saw in Międzyrzec, that Jewsih RABIN spoke to the crowd bout some "punishment" for killing Jesus, it`s not as you wrote in description "some hint at a possible justification"... that "some" was a Jewish rabin.

[doesntfitinatag]

I don't understand polish language but I remember exactly what they where saying. Prejudism like antisemetism has nothing to do with Poland Russia Yugoslavia or even Germany. Brainwashed and narrow minded people are found everywhere in the world. People who hide in the middle of a herd are the crucial mass for things like the holocaust.

Thanks for uploading this masterpiece of seventh art.

[doesntfitinatag]

I remember watching this documentary more than 10 years ago, but I didn't remember the title. I made some efforts to find it by using plot keywords in imdb, but without success.

This scene hunted my brain for more than ten years and this is the first time I watch it since then.

[RussMoxham]

Uh, no. Such reactions clearly show that certain Poles (along with certain Lithuanians, Belarussians, etc.--not that anyone is any better or worse than anyone else) have not come to terms with the occasionally ugly reality of their history. Some see any mention of anti-Semitism in their countries, past or present, as an insult. Why? Either they deny the whole thing, which seems ridiculous, or they admit it's happened but they find it too difficult to deal with it. Neither position works.