The Trap - We Will Force You To Be Free (6 of 6)

The Trap: What Happened to Our Dream of Freedom is a BBC documentary series by English filmmaker Adam Curtis, well known for other documentaries including The Century of the Self and The Power of Nightmares. It began airing on BBC Two on 11 March 2007.

The series consists of three, one-hour programmes which explore the concept and definition of freedom, specifically "how a simplistic model of human beings as self-seeking, almost robotic, creatures led to today's idea of freedom."
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lolharbandhar says: This documentary was absolutely fantastic through and through. I slightly dispute that the Iraq war was based mostly on altruism. That would never have recieved elite support in the way the war did. But either way this still gets 10/10.- And I agree 100%!

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[chief294]

Godwin's Law sates: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."

It's this kind of humorous observation that would have been outlawed by the Nazis!

[Diggensek]

Watch Curtis' All Watched over Machines of Loving Grace. Remember that he's not trying to be completely scientific theory but rather inspire insight in the viewer. It's fascinating to see that as of today we have found no solution to the 'simple' problem of how to create democratic values. The world is basically a giant construction site with a lot of people who have never held a shovel in their entire life.

[subbvert]

"We will have to rediscover the progressive,positive ideas of freedom and realise that that Isiah Berlin was (wrong) right. (Not) All attempts to change the world for the better, by gov't, lead to tyranny" There fixed it Mr BBC doco maker, Sheesh, it was quite good, up to that last sentence anyway.

[MrIzzyDizzy]

@Ryukikon i agree i meant - i agree the concept of liberty has to offer both - and the resource based economy offers more liberty however you want to slice it

[Ryukikon]

@MrIzzyDizzy

WHat your saying is silly Liberty is Liberty. IF we want to use these bollocks terms then Liberty is implicitly both positive and negative liberty. THe problem is that positive liberty has an end and has the potential to undermine status Quo and power bases. Go back and read ideas about the spirit of the Enlightment, Renaissance, etc. Read the Constitution and the documents surrounding it. Liberty is and has well been understood. These are facist experiments

[MrIzzyDizzy]

liberty needs both postive and negative liberty - i advocate the resource based economy - which provides more negative liberty than ever dreamed of before and at the same time has evry postive - greater than ones self goals of creating abundance to satisfy all wants and needs - to make wealth as common as air and to do it sustainably through clean energy the most advanced technologys and productive and distribution processes that are known - but suppressed as abundance like air is unprofitable

[TempoTemple]

Freedom must be negotiated. It can never be imposed. It must be noted that if one man has one vote, as under Anarcho Syndicalism consensus is (sought) and not imposed. From this freedom for the many is obtained since power is devolved back into the hands of the many and away from the few.

[099749]

@RusselBertrand

I have retorted a bit more than that, in other places, sadly it appears you do not really understand what actually happens in a negative freedom society, Adam actually brezzes over it. It is an illusionary system, I could if I wanted formulate a better critic, but as things stand, I have too much else on. But as I said I do not think it is that dificult at all. And he certainly is not one of the greatest thinkers of the last century, he has stupidly condemed humanity.

[RusselBertrand]

@099749 right your incomprehensible 4 paragraph retort to one of the greatest minds of the 20th century completely changed my perspective..... 

[RusselBertrand]

@darkcowboyhero reality sides with Berlin, and time will only strengthen his assertions...