University of Oregon Lecture - Who Owns Taiwan?
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@MrJindrifunk I think there is no point debating this, we can't convince each other. We just have totally different view on such things as a nations territory and why it is more important than the people who live in it.
A 400 character youtube comments section is too short as well. My mail box is flooded with your replies.
I am just going to have to agree to disagree on this, and i have no problem with that stance.
ivarunmehta 1 year ago
@ivarunmehta
I wasn't sure if you were a Chinese nationalist or not.
Then the argument falls down to, the CCP never defeated Chiang. Chiang lost the mainland, but not Taiwan. Therefore, it remains his. However it is also important to note, when Japan ceded Taiwan, they never ceded it to any country. China took over, even though the people on the island wanted independence. Then Chiang proceeded to slaughter people who resisted. I never said Taiwan is a beacon of freedom.
MrJindrifunk 1 year ago
@ivarunmehta
What I don't understand is why it would affect you if a small part of India, which hasn't been under Indian control for 65 years, and which holds elections and self govern, why would it matter to you if they choose to become a country on their own? Why should territory matter more than the lives of a country's people. Actually a better analogy would be Puerto Rico. Because that's what Taiwan was like from 1600's-1885.
MrJindrifunk 1 year ago
@ivarunmehta
They can't change it. China will invade if they do. China actually prefers Taiwan to claim China, because then they have a reason to invade Taiwan. If you ask the common Taiwanese person, they'll laugh at you if you claim that they believe China is Taiwan's. 3
Why should the mainland Chinese get a say over what the Taiwanese wan?. The issue affects the Taiwanese person and the CCP leaders, not some random person in Sichuan. That's all.
MrJindrifunk 1 year ago
@ivarunmehta
Also, the people of Taiwan had nothing to do with the civil war between the mainland Chinese. The war has been forced upon them. Taiwan now has been independent from the mainland for 65 years. The CCP lost whatever tenuous claim they had on Taiwan.
MrJindrifunk 1 year ago
@ivarunmehta
Hong Kong holds false elections.The people can't vote in who they want because China elects the people. The party members from the mainland have the power not the Hong Kong people. The people in China only tolerate the government because they have a view that it's only the local officials who are corrupt. I'm curious as to what you believe to be the reason China has a claim on Taiwan. If anything you could say that the CCP only took the mainland from Chiang Kai Shek.
MrJindrifunk 1 year ago
@MrJindrifunk HK still holds elections, thats a big deal still.
CCP is in power because the people in China tolerate them, China has witnessed more revolutions than any other in the world.
I am from India if you're asking. I am all for liberty and rights, but facts need to be taken into account thats just how i feel. You and i see the world from different scopes i feel. I don't think you can convince me that China doesn't have a legitimate claim on Tawian or me be able to convince you it seems
ivarunmehta 1 year ago
@MrJindrifunk Ok so you say the "kmt" claims it. Why hasn't then the new govt. (which the PEOPLE elected as you claim) changed the constitution, which still claims the Mainland and Outer Mongolia as its territory.
This whole argument of "people" is over used as well.
Well if you survey the China mainland, a billion people would say lets get Taiwan, So those people don't get any voice over the 20mill + Taiwanese people.
This is a dangerous and impractical argument.
ivarunmehta 1 year ago
@MrJindrifunk I am aware of the history, (1949 was important as well)
I think we just have differing opinion the aspect of territorial integrity.
I am not sure how nationalistic you are, but i am Indian i share the Chinese view completely if applied to my country as well.
Territorial integrity of my country is far more important than the lives of its citizens (sure you can argue but what is a country without its people, but that doesn't change the fact that its truly held position)
ivarunmehta 1 year ago
@MrJindrifunk CCP might not have ruled Taiwan but united china did, Chiang ruled over united China (including Taiwan)
I only mentioned Taiwan being under dictatorship till 2 decades ago, in point to your argument that Taiwan is all about liberty, and a beacom of freedom. While that might be one can't sweep under the carpet the FACTS of history.
Ofcourse i beleive in Humanss right, you are not talking to an idiot over here.
ivarunmehta 1 year ago