Was there a massacre around the time of Jesus birth?

http://forerunner.com

This is another clip from The Real Jesus.

Was there really a "Massacre of the Innocents" in Bethlehem around the time of Jesus' birth?

According to Matthew chapter 2, in the days of Herod the Great, astrological portents brought Magi from the east naively inquiring about a newborn King. Ironically, this triggered a reaction from Herod that closely resembled the events surrounding Augustus Caesar's own birth.

Most liberals will say that the so-called "Massacre of the Innocents" is a myth. However, they are using the "argument from silence" fallacy. There is only one account of this isolated event in a small country that isn't recorded elsewhere. But that doesn't disprove Matthew's account by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, the massacring of infants was a common practice in Roman days.

According to Julius Marathus, a personal confidant of Augustus Caesar, the Roman Senate ordered all the baby boys killed who were born in 63 B.C. because prophetic dreams and astrological signs suggested that a "King of the Romans" was to be born.

Ironically, Augustus was born on Sept. 23 of that year! Since we only have one account of this event, do we discount this massacre as well? No, historians accept Suetonius as generally reliable.

So all things being equal, Herod's "Massacre of the Innocents" recorded in Matthew 2 is not a myth.

The following is from Suetonius, The Divine Augustus, 94:

"Since we are upon this subject, it may not be improper to give an account of the omens, before and at his birth, as well as afterwards, which gave hopes of his future greatness, and the good fortune that constantly attended him. A part of the wall of Velletri having in former times been struck with thunder, the response of the soothsayers was, that a native of that town would some time or other arrive at supreme power; relying on which prediction, the Velletrians both then, and several times afterwards, made war upon the Roman people, to their own ruin. At last it appeared by the event, that the omen had portended the elevation of Augustus.

"Julius Marathus informs us, that a few months before his birth, there happened at Rome a prodigy, by which was signified that Nature was in travail with a king for the Roman people; and that the senate, in alarm, came to the resolution that no child born that year should be brought up; but that those amongst them, whose wives were pregnant, to secure to themselves a chance of that dignity, took care that the decree of the senate should not be registered in the treasury."

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[tranceman22]

So you wish to accept a claim for an historical event that has no record elsewhere because it was written in a Gospel nearly a century after the alleged event by an unknown author. This isn't credible. The bible is not a reliable source for historical information. What historians used the Bible? This is just a sales ploy for some Christian's pseudo scientific book!

[jcr4runner]

@tranceman22

I accept the claim because it was written by a Jewish follower of Jesus about 40 to 50 years after the event who would have had access to firsthand testimony.

I also accept the claim because it is consistent with other historical accounts of Herod in Josephus (who wrote later than Matthew) about mass murders of thousands of Jews. The village of Bethlehem was less than 1000 people, therefore males under 2 years old would have been 15 to 30 babies.

[meangreenmeme]

Matthew thought the new Xian sect needed to relive (symbolically) the history of Israel as a way of theologically legitimizing belief in Jesus as the Messiah. The holy family's flight to Egypt was parallel to the ancient Jewish diaspora into Egypt. Herod's killing of infants in Bethlehem is parallel to Pharaoh's murder of the first born children. That M divided his Gospel into 5 parts in imitation of the Pentateuch attests to his theological intent. Literalise the BIble and you ridicule it!

[jcr4runner]

@meangreenmeme Matthew too speaks of these parallels as literally fulfilled prophecy. He uses a phrase several times "... that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets."

Why would he concoct a story that was not a literal fulfillment? You are saying this is allegory, but that is not the meaning of the words, "it is written ..." or "it was spoken by the prophets."

Your idea has some elegance only if you need to deny the supernatural and still hold to the inspiration of scripture.

[banjo1973au]

"boo hoo hoo it's not fair it's true, true, true" is not evidence. On what specific evidence is the massacre of the innocents being true based? And simply quoting the bible is not sufficient. What is this "evidence" that scholars have not treated fairly?

[wayinoutreach]

How about if it is written in the stars as God said? Check out the Hebrew Mazzaroth(The true Zodiak) & check out "Archeology: Digging for the Truth of the Bible" video. It is an inconvenient Truth that most of humanity doesn't want to except because it would mean they have to change from self-centeredness, which they have become so good at. The "fallen angels" taught man many lies & evils, but you don't have to swallow them. After all, God did give you FREEWILL! Jesus Saves!!

[wayinoutreach]

@tranceman22 How about if it is written in the stars as God said? Check out the Hebrew Mazzaroth(The true Zodiak) & you might want to check out "Archeology: Digging for the Truth of the Bible" video. It is an inconvenient Truth that most of humanity doesn't want to except because it would mean they have to change from self-centeredness, which they have become so good at. The "fallen angels" taught man many lies & evils, but you don't have to swalloow them. After all, God did give you FREEWILL!

[CoolBreezeClub]

What people are missing here is this took place what was at the time a very small and rural village. Most historians seriously addressing this event state that the number of Children killed (under 2) were quite possibly in single digits-not the high numbers commonly associated with this event. While a tragic event, with no CNN or Fox News around at the time and people afraid to speak up to the so-called leaders of the day it would not get much attention.

[SpincterManBubba]

The Old Testament Bible is at best 10% factual. It re-writes information from tablets that are thousands of years older than the Bible. The Bible was plagiarized from many other writings then changed to suit the government/religion in power at the time. When are you going to teach the truth? The Bible is one many reference sources. Where is Jesus buried? You can't go to heaven in human form. Your own book says that. Don't use the Bible as your only reference when begging for donations.

[IExposeMormonism]

@tranceman22 You are so wrong that you need to do some research. Sooooo wrong

[ELVISCHALLENGE]

@tranceman22 One of the greatest lie-by-omissions. There was a holocaust around the time the Gospels was writen. Over a million perished when the smallest nation challenged Rome - but this is not recorded in the Gospels. This is like the NY Times not mentioning 9/11 on 9/12!

[flightkiller09]

religious people defend the bible no matter what. The bible is NOT HISTORY!

It has ridiculous stories, stories not confirmed by any other sources of actual history.

[xcellken1]

@jcr4runner If Matthew was a follower of Jesus, why did he write in Greek, and quote the GREEK version of the Jewish Old Testament???

BTW, The first mention of the Gospel of Matthew BY NAME was in 180 AD. If it was around when you said it was, why not even one mention of it by other Christian writers, eg, Justin Martyr, who wrote bewteen 150 and 165 AD???

[camelio10]

The silly guy in this video killed his own argument. So here we have a similare event (ordered killing of babies) that happened 63 years??? before the evnts of Jesus, perfectly recorded in roman history. But somehow, the supposedly similar, but more significant event happen 63 years later but not recorded, hmm?...Not to mention the Bible has an agenda to fulfill prophecies so obviously less credible than just a random record of history 63 yrs earlier with no agenda