Postmodernism in George Orwell's 1984, Part 2

See Theodore Dalrymple's essay on 20th century dystopias at http://www.city-journal.org/html/11_4_oh_to_be.html

Category:

Education

Tags:

• english
• literature
• ayn
• rand
• objectivism
• dystopia
• pragmatism
• subjectivism
• relativism
• newspeak
• thoughtcrime
• post-modernism

[Agnotio]

Your point that thousands of high school students are being "brainwashed" by O'Brien is ridiculous. O'Brien is one of the most malevolent and least sympathetic characters in all of literature. He extendedly tortures and kills the protagonist! why should students subscribe to what O'Brien is saying? Orwell is satirizing and pointing out the misuse of "postmodern" ideas with the character of O'Brien, not disseminating them.

[nine9s]

"O'Brien is one of the most malevolent and least sympathetic characters in all of literature. He extendedly tortures and kills the protagonist! why should students subscribe to what O'Brien is saying?"

Just because he's evil doesn't mean that everything he says is incorrect, and smart students realize this. For all they know, a person can be quite normal and still believe these things. How are they to know that he's incorrect unless they know how to counteract his arguments?

[horvay]

"We just use things as maps to get along in the world."

Reminds me of the quote,

"Science is merely graphing appearances"

Both deny causality.

Post-modernism in quantum mechanics anyone?

[nine9s]

Horvay, you've gotta listen to "The 19th Century Atomic War." It talks about the influence Kant had on physics. People thought atomic theory was a useful blueprint, but had nothing to do with reality.

[Nelapidae]

Is that one of David Harriman's lectures?

[nine9s]

Yes. His lectures are awesome.

[PaulMcKeever]

Hmmm. The idea that many students end up not understanding O'Brien's philosophy to be lunacy is quite interesting. I remember reading 1984 and being terrified by O'Brien's ramblings. Today, I get angered, not terrified at them. I'd like a 1982 part 2: "O'Brien meets Dirty Harry".  At the climax, Dirty Harry, gun pointed at O'Brien, says "I know what you're thinking: how many bullets did I use. The answer, as you know, punk, is: as many as I say I did. Not one more, and not one less."

[diggingpitt]

The point that kids will get is that O'Brien seems to win. The philosophy he represents seems to win.

[natedaug1]

Pragmatism, that is what I think he is getting, not phenomenology. Pragmatism is just whatever works, with a small w, not a big w. I have an answer because I am getting my master's degree in philosophy. Epistemology does not dictate metaphysics. Just because we don't have 100 percent certainty on reality does not mean that there is not reality. So, epistemology does not dictate metaphysics. It is the other way around.

[aveyowyns]

Loved ur video.

agniotio - you wrote something along these line; no one except the insane would believe that one can control reality, therefore control a people under their dictatorship... So, what exactly is propaganda? No, it may not be controling reality to thr same degree, but it still controls reality. Have you ever heard of paradigms? If by changing the way we think, we can create a new reality, then why can't it be the other way around?

[BlindEyeJones]

There are better arguments and worse arguments. If all truth is culturally bound -- relative -- would you go to an African witch doctor if you broke your leg or to a western doctor? Supposedly neither doctor has a greater understanding of the outside world because there is no objective outside world. I had a lit prof who, despite all his admiration of magic realism, went to a regular doc. Moral: There is a great difference between putting a bone through your nose and sending a man to the moon.

[BiggsReport]

Do you remember Columbine?

I think a lot of young people almost revel in mindless violence nowadays.

[ChrisThe87]

"[T]here are the litle shysters of the intellect... who delight in arguing for argument's sake and stumping opponents by means of ready-to-wear paradoxes... Whatever the combination of motives, neurosis is stamped in capital letters across the whole movement, since there is no such thing as rejecting reason through an innocent error of knowledge".

Ayn Rand, 'The Cashing In: The Student "Rebellion" (1965)'

[marneedear]

You're cracking me up.

[marneedear]

Perhaps you have been brainwashed into thinking nothing is real. Hmmmm?

[nine9s]

thesubjectivist -- Who the hell are you? I know you're not being serious. Your account was just set up today. Unmask yourself!

[jwoodswce]

S,

How so if four entities exist in external reality? Then they are four existents independent of consciousness.

Are you suggesting that those four entities existing in external reality independent of consciousness do not really exist?

[Agnotio]

Just one last support for what I was writing... O'Brien actually says in the novel: "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever". I'm sure a lot of teenagers are going to want to follow that.