The Best Argument for Atheism

Here I give a short description for what is (in my opinion) the best argument for not believing in any gods. A theist once asked me what was a "knockout punch" argument against his religion--this is my response.

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• atheism
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• christian
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• god
• debate
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[funkishness]

It'll never happen. So it's your own fantasy win.

For this game to work you have to end up owning yourself.

That's part of your honesty rule.

If not then your game's logic is flawed.

Can you do it with a few cards and someone, because if it works for all it should work for the sample set?

[MystryBox]

@funkishness it doesn't end up "owning myself" because atheism isn't a religion. It's the lack of a religion. The "argument" of the video discovers no religion has any good reason to be believed, and that leaves you with no religion (atheism).

[PUBalanceTeam]

@fatrob1711 My problem is that you're trying to use something that may or may not exist - to prove that something else exists.

Obviously this is flawed unless you can prove that the possible world in question exists.

[fatrob1711]

@PUBalanceTeam

1 is just philosophy... by saying something exists in a possible world... it's just saying it's possible. I don't see why I have to argue for this... no one disagrees with that...it's philosophy(?)

ANd well yes, when I talk about God, I am talking about the greatest conceivable being.. and this is the case I'm arguing for...

[PUBalanceTeam]

@fatrob1711 On 2 and 3, I do not agree with either definition. Though this is easily remedied by replacing God with "A form X, with the trait of being completely omni-present across all Universes" I think we can both agree on that, since that is the core what your argument can prove.

Your justification for point 1 is not nearly enough to redeem the argument. For your logic to be valid, you need to prove the existence of this possible world. The existence of "X" is completely dependent on this.

[fatrob1711]

@PUBalanceTeam

1) I didn't say different world, they're called possible worlds... they're completely different things.

2) necessity is a great making quality. If something has all the great making qualities, that makes it maximally great, it'd be necessity, rather than contingency...in the same way that it'd be all-powerful instead of partially powerful

3) God, is, by definition, the maximally great being..if anything were greater, that'd be God. This isn't a case for the Christian God. Just God

[PUBalanceTeam]

@fatrob1711 I still see 3 gaps

1. You're making a huge leap from "Something's possible, therefore it exists in a different world". The 2nd half of that has to be *proven*, not asserted. You need to prove the possible world (and entity) exist.

2. You must prove that the entity has this characteristic of being "necessary". Can you prove that a God in a different world MUST exist in this one?

3. The third leap as I said is the leap between "Maximal being -> God". It could be Allah or Thor, etc..

[fatrob1711]

@PUBalanceTeam if something is possible...then they exist in a different possible world. That is, by definition, what it means. If something is necessary, then they live in ALL possible worlds, like the number 7 for example. If something is impossible, like a 4 sided sqquare, then it exists in no possible world. By a maximally great being..e.g God, this being has all great making qualities..including being necessary. Does this help? :)

[PUBalanceTeam]

@PUBalanceTeam It could be a mystical space hippo that lives in a clam shell - and you could never say otherwise.

Let's use the topic of the video - if I were to posit Thor, or Space Hippos, or High-Tech Light Speed Rhinos as this 'maximally great being' - how would you go about disproving them?

[PUBalanceTeam]

@fatrob1711 I'm probably walking into a troll here, but.

1 - True, 2 - If there are multiple worlds, it is possible that he exists in one. You cannot argue for it being probable as you know nothing about these worlds. 3 - By being necessary? Define this please. Can you prove that he exists in one of these possible worlds - can you prove that the possible worlds exist?

You argument never actually connects to reality, and you cannot prove that this maximal entity is God.