CCW 2.75: Last Rants Part One

Elliott & Jose talk some more about the Watchmen movie and why it struggled at the box-office after its opening weekend.

Category:

Entertainment

Tags:

• Watchmen
• Batman
• Iron
• Man

[Pinkhamsterino]

I didn't get the connection between The Comics Journal and the guy who slagged your Watchmen review for killing the hopes for intelligent comic book movies. That guy was saying comics fans need to uncritically rally behind this film, while the Comics Journal's reputation is based on harsh criticism of sacred cows like the Watchmen comic (which Groth thought overrated). Their idea of an intelligent movie based on a comic book: non-superhero films such as Ghost World and American Splendor.

[comicculturewarrior]

The only connection between the CJ and the commenter was the one I made in my head. He sounded to me like one of those "intellectual" comic fans who reads the Journal and I made a joke about it. There really was no malice behind the comment. That's really all there is to it.

Again, this was me being sarcastic and I do understand how it could be off putting to people who don't personally know me.

To me the Journal is just as useless as Wizard. But that's just my opinion,

Jose

[Pinkhamsterino]

I don't read the Journal anymore, but comparing them to Wizard is basically absurd, given that Wizard is dedicated to encouraging collector greed, while the Journal has done important journalism advocating for creators such as Jack Kirby (when he was alive), Steve Gerber, Alan Moore, and Rick Veitch, who were all fucked over by Marvel and DC. In the '80s, they were the only media outlet devoting substantial coverage to creators' rights issues and ethical practices in the comic book industry.

[comicculturewarrior]

Ok. Yes, I'll concede that there was a time when the Journal had a very important voice in the industry that needed to be heard but imho that time has long since passed. It had it's place in comic's history and has become a shadow of it's former self.

The comparison to Wizard, in my mind, is not at all absurd. In their current forms I find both magazines quite useless. For my money I'd rather be reading any one of the great publications by Two-Morrows.

Jose

[comicculturewarrior]

Also, thanks in advance for helping us with some content/ideas for this weeks new episodes. You'll see what I mean.

Jose

[saar1707]

This week (3.18.09) Deadpool Games of Death came out and it was hilarious.

Punisher #3 came out and it was great, Ultimate #3 came out and it was repulsive and stupid issue, like the rest of the series. Amazing spider man #588 was ok.

And Dark Avengers #3 came out, the first half was shit but the second half was fine.

[comicculturewarrior]

That's where you and I differ. I liked the first half of DA #3 and absolutely HATED the 2nd half. Jose and I will talk about it this week and I'll tell you why.

Elliott

[RODNEY383]

I AGREE ,I SEEN THE WATCHMEN (TWICE) IN THE THEATERS AND THAT WAS BECAUSE I READ THE NOVEL AFTER SEEING THE TRAILER IN THE DARK KNIGHT MOVIE.I REMEMBER THINKING WHEN I WAS IN THE THEATER AND SAW THE WATCHMEN TRAILER HOW I WOULD RATHER SEE WATCHMEN TODAY AND DARK KNIGHT TOMORROW. WATCHMEN WAS THE FIRST COMIC I EVER READ .later that week i went to a comic shop and got the graphic novel.

[herosymbiote]

what would you guys say say is your favorites super-hero movie. (mine is The Dark Knight)

[Pinkhamsterino]

I agree there have been a lot of bitter attacks. The self-promotion angle I'm not as convinced of, though there is definitely an argument to be made for conflict of interest. Anyhoo, it's all good. Peace be with you (and me!).

[Pinkhamsterino]

Jose: I agree that the Journal doesn't mean what it once did, and even in its day it was a mixed blessing. Twomorrows pubs are fun, but they aren't very critical, as far as I can tell. They mainly focus on nostalgiac celebration (except for the instructional writing and drawing mags).

[locusmortis]

These days the comics journal is a combination of blatant self promotion and bitter attacks on other comics companies. Like Jose I'd pick Twomorrows magazines as a far more objective look at the comic book industry.

And what I'm saying dosen't mean I dislike all Fantagraphics work, far from it. Chris Ware, Linda Medley and others are great.

Also there is a type of psuedo-intellectual fan who looks down on Marvel/DC fans and I think this is what the lads were alluding to.

[locusmortis]

That was all a long time ago. Gary Groth started out idealistic but over time it seems the business has got to him too. The rot started with Fantagraphics starting up Eros comics so that they could cash in on a quick buck during the early/mid 90's porn comic phase. Aside from some Wally Wood and Frank Thorne work that was some really bad work and counter to Groths supposed ideals. That and the Harvey awards tainted him in the eyes of lots of former admirers of his.