First half (approx) of my response to StudiousJW
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Thank you for your letter, I hope I can reciprocate in kind, without "attitude", although I will say from the start I find you contents rather weak.
My first reaction is (to paraphrase Carly Simon) "This Isn't About You". ;)
WithSpiritAndTruth made some claims, that *she* does independent study "almost every day" and had examined "all points of view" before becoming a JW. Based on my experience, I found that very doubtful, so I challenged her (not you) to back up *her* claim.
If she had responded with a thorough list similar to your list, then I would have been satisfied (even though I would have no way to prove she actually studied the items on the list). Instead she jumped immediately to avoidance, which does not help her case, IMO. In fact, like I said in my video, it makes here look even more dubious.
You asked "Any other questions?", which in itself is strange, since it implies you are answering questions I asked of you, which I did not. However, since you have now politely offered to answer my questions, I do have a few for you, based on the contents of your letter to me.
(1) Why did you send this as a private message? I would prefer to keep all YouTube communication in the open, in the public forum. Why not post a response (or a series of responses due to the max size constraint in comments)?
(2) If you have been JW for 30 years, you joined approx 1979. Let's look at publication dates of the book list you sent, according to http://books.google.com
30 Years a Watchtower Slave (1971)
Kingdom of the Cults (1965)
Ray Franz "Crisis of Conscience" (1983)
Jehovah's Witnesses Answered Verse by Verse (1986)
If my 1979 estimate is correct, only the first two were in print when you joined JWs. Also, (if my memory serves) the 2nd book only deals *in part* with JWs, along with many other religions which the author labels "cults" because they do or do not believe exactly the same way the author believes. IMO a weak basis for the book overall, and only a partial treatment for JWs. Personally I wouldn't even count that, but I'll spot you a half point of that one.
It is impossible to have read the last two books *before* you joined (of course, you could have read them after you joined, but the point is: getting information to make an informed decision *before* you join, and I stress that is an important and meaningful distinction.
I hope it is not necessary for me to prove that you did NOT review any web sites prior to you joining in approx. 1979, since there were no web sites at that time. There was, of course, a very young internet, with email, FTP, gopher, archie, and telnet, and if you had academic access you might have even used it in 1979, but there was no WWW. So you certainly did not study any of those web sites *prior* to joining. I also note that CARM.org is mostly about Christian Apologetics in general, so not all of it, indeed very little of it, deals directly with JWs specifically.
So, 1.5 books were the basis of your research leading to your "well informed decision" *before* you joined? Yes, you may have done subsequent research, but I'm confident that you didn't do very much *prior* to joining, based on the evidence you have presented to me.
(3) You said: "After all, they are pretty much universally hated and opposed." I have heard this opinion before, from people in many different groups: JWs, Jews, Muslims, Scientologists, Mormons, and even Atheists. Branch Davidians (David Koresh, Waco Texas) felt THEY were the most hated group, persecuted because of their "truth" that Koresh was the Lamb of God. Rev. Jim Jones's group felt that *THEY* were most hated, and left California for Guyana to get away from the hate and create paradise on earth. IIRC, the Puritans left Europe for American because *THEY* were the most hated and needed a fresh start.
I'm not certain why everyone is fighting for the privilege of being "most hated group", but I suspect that a "persecution complex" is one of the necessary ingredients which validates all of these groups to their respective group members. However, this is just a guess on my part. Regardless, my question to you, to support your claim: what evidence do you have that JWs "are pretty much universally hated and opposed."??? (Based on my experience, most people don't even know about or think about JWs, couldn't give them the time of day, and wouldn't even know what they were "opposing" if they wanted to.) Furthermore, how do you reconcile your belief that they are universally hated, with your (I assume, I have heard this from JWs before, and Mormons too) belief that "people in the world know that JWs (Mormons) are honest and hardworking and clean and that is why people in the world like to hire or rent to JWs (or Mormons). Which is it, universally hated, or well regarded for being neat and clean and polite and honest?
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Private Message from StudiousJWby RationalSkeptic530 views
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