Civilisation EP1#2

Kenneth Clark's "Civilisation" - The Skin of our teeth.
The Dark Ages, the six centuries following the collapse of the Roman Empire, Byzantine Ravenna to the Celtic Hebrides, Charlenagnes chapel at Aachen, he unravels the extraordinary story of how European thought and art were saved by 'the skin of our teeth'.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Civilisation
• Kenneth Clark
• Rome
• Skellig
• Michael
• Iona
• Charlemagne
• Cross of Lothar
• Norsemen

[TwoMunchuTwo]

Just as well there are so many unbiased people in the world today who can see clearly for the rest of us.

[lindmusik]

One can ask oneself this: If the christian western world was so civilized, how come we had imperialism, how come they murdered indians and africans, how come they enslaved the world? It was the greeks who once thought they were the civilized ones and called their neighbours barbarians, but that was a simplified view and it is dangerous. I'm just saying that one should be careful in painting the world in black and white, that's all.

[TwoMunchuTwo]

I assume you believe your last statement is true, not false. This makes that statement a black or white statement. There's nothing wrong with that, it's called logic. The problem we have is arrogance and unwillingness to listen to other ideas. The "christian western world" still remains destination number 1 for emigrants. Civilisation and Barbarism are relative words.

[DrZenith]

@lindmusik Your questions about Imperialism etc are absurd. It's stupid to complain that people in the past didn't behave in a modern Politically Correct way. But Western civilization was progressive - it corrected itself over time. Take slavery. Most Europeans in the 17th and 18th centuries thought slavery acceptable. But gradually, beginning in Britain with the anti-slavery movement of the 1780s, people's opinions evolved and slavery was later banned. Civilization = Progress.

[VeritasEngine]

I'm playing 'Civ IV' at the same time as watching this and having a fucking good time doing it thank you very much.

[DrZenith]

In 1969 I was too young to appreciate this series; now I find Kenneth Clark's masterly account of Western Civilization fascinating and instructive. Thank you very much for posting this.

[wanttoseethemdead]

@lindmusik

because imperialism, slavery and supremacy like Competition, Science, religion Property rights, Medicine, The consumer society, The work ethics were (and if were I guess still ARE) part of our western civilisation.

The question is wether you like it or not!

[ezelite]

@lindmusik I think you have confused Civilisation with Civilised Nation....it even said so in part one. And could it not also be said of Islam that it enslaved great regions? All civilisations were built on the backs of the weak and downtrodden, i cant think of a genuine civilisation that wasnt.

[SHMUJEW]

@TwoMunchuTwo How come youre a barbaric animal?

[lindmusik]

@doctorpapaya Well, if there had been no genocide of Native Americans in Columbus' times not as many people would speak english as today but that doesn't justify it in any way.

[marcelagae]

@lindmusik Fair enough. Perhaps you could point point out exactly where the program describes other religions as "The bad guys" as you put it, and the Christians as "the good guys". I must have missed that part. There is a focus on Christianity because the program is about the development of western civilization in the post roman period.

[lindmusik]

@marcelagae I'm making a judgment and with that I am not painting things black and white. If every judgment were of that kind, it would be impossible to argue. I'm not saying the Christians were worse, I'm just saying that they were not the good guys and all the other religions were the bad guys. That's not painting things in black and white, that's putting things in perspective.

[marcelagae]

@lindmusik Odd, you warn against painting things in black and white, yet you yourself paint the Christian western world in black and white moralizing in your comment. Usually people who warn against making judgements or painting things in "black or white really" only dislike having ideologies they agree with judged or painted. They usually are quite content to judge and paint ideologies they disagree with themselves.