Arnold Schoenberg - Suite for Piano Op. 25 - Part I

Suite para Piano Op.25 (Parte I)
Arnold Schoenberg (1874 - 1951)
Piano: Glenn Gould

Category:

Music

Tags:

• Arnold
• Schoenberg
• Classical
• Dodecaphony
• Glenn
• Gould
• Piano
• Dodecafonismo

[gibrandogg]

no, its a pizza, asshole

[cedricrlongreen]

If you played a bunch of random notes on the piano...I bet you would never be able to play it again. And if you wrote a bunch of random notes on a manuscript, I bet no one would buy it. I may be a fan of classical, romantic and tonal music but I'm smart enough to know that atonal composers put a lot of thought into writing their music especially after I took music history 124C and this is coming from someone who absolutely hated 20th century music before.

[MaestroTJS]

@vampiremessiah51 No, what I'm saying is, I consider writing music according to some arbitrary matrix you've devised anti-musical. In the hands of a good composer, the chord choices in non-"beautiful" music can still make some sense, as they might be chosen for sound/colour, whatever. Schoenberg's system seems to have mathematical considerations and intentional avoidance, not sound/colour/inspiration, as its primary concerns.

[vampiremessiah51]

@MaestroTJS I'm a music ed major and that is indeed the most common definition of music I see. It's subjective but it's the standard definition. No I can't tell the tonality of the piece, i'm not sure you're using tonality right either. You mean tell the nature of the row? Can you tell what key a piece is by ear? I certainly can't, I think only those with perfect pitch can.

Also you're making the assumption that anything that isn't beautiful to the ear is anti musical.

[MaestroTJS]

@vampiremessiah51 If you can define music as anything you want it to be, then sure.

And you can tell the "tonality" of one 12-tone piece from another after the first few measures? Really?

It's anti-musical in the sense that it requires you to go through 11 other notes before you can return to the starting one and requires the same for all its transformations. That's not composing with or for the ear--it's composing by and for the mind.

[vampiremessiah51]

@MaestroTJS Actually it's not anti musical at all since music can be defined as organized sound over time with artistic intent. It's not even atonal because the 12 tone system forms it's own tonality that is separate. In fact your entire argument hinges on western tonality being the only form of music the human mind can comprehend. In reality there different tonal systems all over the world many of which your ear isn't trained to appreciate. Does that make them wrong? this is no different.

[vampiremessiah51]

I love how everyone calls this atonal. It was written with 12-tone serialism thus providing it with a seperate tonality. If you want to hear REAL atonality go listen to Pierrot Lunaire der Mondfleck. You can hear a massive difference between the two styles.

[MaestroTJS]

@philateliceun And clearly you need to read what some composers and musicians said about each other. They were far more vicious than I'm being...and that includes Schoenberg.

[MaestroTJS]

@philateliceun As I said, there is nothing about being a musician/composer that compels me to recognize genius in others just because there is SOME consensus on it. I can recognize certain aspects of his craft as having been well-done but that doesn't mean I have to go further than that.

I will also state again that my main point was to refute your contention that he could have written great "pleasant-sounding" music. He tried, wasn't successful, and came up with his own alternative.

[MaestroTJS]

@philateliceun Wow, your arguments are so articulate. The best you can come up with is "you don't know what you're talking about." How immature and feeble-minded are you?

The 12-tone system is anti-musical because it supplants centuries-long development of harmony and voice-leading with a new harmonic "language" that doesn't give a crap about natural harmonics and how the brain/ear listen to music. He only "emancipated dissonance" in his and his followers' minds.

[philateliceun]

@MaestroTJS "(the 12-tone system) is so anti-musical" by this alone you lost all your credibility if you might have some to begin with. You should spend a night thinking about what exactly music is. Just think about it.

[philateliceun]

@MaestroTJS Any respectable musician would never say that any great composer was mediocre. Now you are just being a condescending asshole who thinks he knows all because he read two or three books about the subject. You instantly lose all your credibility if you go bash a great composer like that, you are no Mozart or Beethoven, you don't know what you are talking about, especially since you call his 12 tone system more math then music. Just accept it, you don't know what you are talking about.