FEMINISM -- The F-Word
Uploader Comments (invdrzim)
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@invdrzim So to continue, anti-sexist men are in a politically difficult place where they have 2 choices. They either accept the party line (which is confusing since feminists disagree among themselves), for fear of being labeled as sexist, or they keep their feelings to themselves because they don't want to be socially isolated by other men. So I agree that cynicism has to end so the movement against sexism can be can have more support from both sexes.
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@invdrzim I think the problem I've had with the movement is that women's groups have automatically assumed that men are incapable of understanding how women have been disenfranchised. Of course, many men don't get it, but there are a lot of men who do. It's just that male gender equitists haven't gained the critical mass for a political movement and feminists often assume that women have to "raise men's consciousness" because men can't figure it out for themselves.
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@prschuster I know many males who are feminists, its called pro feminism, just like im a pro masculinist being female if you belive and support idea of feminists then your a feminist labeled or not. A tree is still a tree even if nobody calls it that.
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Feminists define traditional masculine values as superior to feminine. Instead of asserting equality fo men to learn from and value women equally while women move into men's traditional roles, it despises women unless they adopt masculine roles as superior and return to traditional views of hetero-sex as a degrading demand that men force upon unwilling or stupid brainwashed women. Feminism is mysoginist macho-worship that our society has left behind in the 19th century.
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@invdrzim And so this would be a good opportunity for feminists to seek common ground with men's groups who want to establish joint custody and who are looking into ways to make the educational system more male friendly since boys are starting to fall behind in the classroom. We also have to be more realistic about the differences between men & women. We ought to revive chivalry because women ARE more vulnerable than men on the street. Let's just call it "gender equity".
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@invdrzim Yeh, I know I was being simplistic, but 500 characters is just not enough space to write a long essay on the subject. Every political movement has a power hungry resentment filled faction that only fuels the fire of backlash.
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@prschuster Interestingly, there's more than two factions. Multiple factions include power feminism, black feminism, "third world" feminism, post-mo feminism, marxist feminism...the list goes on and on. But yes, you're right about those two distinct attitudes people have when thinking about feminism.
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@invdrzim I've heard that there are roughly two very different factions that feminists fall into. One has been called "equity feminism" which is focused on gaining equal rights for women. The other is "gender feminism" which looks at men as if they were a constant threat to women. That's the faction that spawns a lot of this man hating. It would be nice if people could understand the difference between these two very distinct attitudes among feminists.
Feminism is a movement of by and for women with the aim of obtaining the same civil rights and priviledges that men have. Notice that I said it is a movement by women - not men - and that I didn't mention equal rights as the main focus of feminism. Gender equity is often a spinoff of feminism but there's no guarantee that a movement by one gender can completely speak for the legitimate concerns of both sexes. I agree with some feminist issues but as a man I can't call myself a feminist.
prschuster 2 years ago
@prschuster One of the reasons I don't associate much with feminism anymore is because of the disturbing trend in which males are taking a severe verbal beating from feminist rhetoric. The movement goes in so many different directions...it's hard for ANYONE now to say they're a feminist and believe what every sub-feminist school of thought believes. I love bell hooks' definition of feminism; she makes it more equality-based: "a movement to end sexism, sexist exploitation, and oppression."
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invdrzim 1 year ago
@invdrzim Bell books definition of feminism: "a movement to end sexism, sexist exploitation, and oppression."
I would amend that to read " a movement of by & for women to end sexisn toward women and sexist exploitation or oppression of women". It's a women's movement and it has helped women. I'm not going to get myself involved in the masculist vs feminist debate. Neither of them personally concern me at present. That's where I stand right now.
prschuster 1 year ago
@prschuster I think the reason bell hooks didn't include "by & for women" is because she is purposely trying to head in a new direction in which feminism can help not only women, but men, too. Her books deal with masculinity (especially black masculinity), violence, compassion, and emotion as related with masculinity. While presently a lot of our information come from feminist who, as you said, belong to a movement "by & for women"...there are scholars trying to challenge that.
-b
invdrzim 1 year ago