GM Hydrogen Car

Interview with GM Director Dan O'Connell

Category:

People & Blogs

Tags:

• Hydrogen
• Car
• GM
• General
• motors
• fuel
• cell
• gas
• solar
• green
• hybrid

[muttamutta]

@ChemicalMikeUK Well, that's often the case but as Dan Nocera at MIT proved he can convert water to hydrogen with 20% energy loss (the product exists). There are a couple of pure "hydrogen vehicles" that run on pure hydrogen, one of them is BMW Hydro 7 that uses liquid hydrogen in a combustion engine (that can also run on gasoline). As you see, the only thing that really is needed is either to compress the gas or cool it (and from cooling it you can get additional energy).

[ChemicalMikeUK]

@muttamutta EREOI=Energy Returned On Energy Invested.Hydrogen.Unless you have a pure source of(H),(the closest natural sources are the Sun&Jupiter),energy must be used to extract it.Most(but not all)commercial grade(H)is made using pyrolysis of natural gas or steam reforming of coal.That actually CREATES grenhouse gasses.Which also takes energy.And around 40% of (H)'s energy is spent liquifying it into useable form AFTER extraction.Theres an EREOI formula for it in Zubrin's article. :)

[muttamutta]

@ChemicalMikeUK As I said I used the wrong term, however the difference in cost is the same and hydrogen is a cheaper fuel than gasoline when you compare KWh output. Is it really that hard to look at the numbers i gave you and see what my argument is?

In the first comment i stated that it has a negative EROEI, you of all people should understand what that means. The whole discussion from then derrives from you being hooked on using the right term and me explaining what i meant.

[ChemicalMikeUK]

@muttamutta so you didnt google the question then? all im sayin is dont just take my word for it. look it up!

[muttamutta]

@muttamutta (even though a battery is an energy carrier it still, to the car, is an anergy source)

[muttamutta]

@ChemicalMikeUK I already stated that it has a negative EROEI (in the beginning). That should have killed the discussion. No energy source has negative energi, however, to a car even a battery is an energy source or at least a source of energy.

I understand that you leave the debate since you get hooked on terminology concerning a single word/term and missing the whole point. Energy + Water converted to hydrogen with 20% energy loss is still cheaper than gasoline at current prices.

[ChemicalMikeUK]

@muttamutta just to prove what im telling you, you should google this question; is hydrogen an energy source or an energy carrier? hope it clears things up for you. done debating with you now. peace :)

[ChemicalMikeUK]

nope! its a energy source, its an energy carrier. again, ask a physics teacher, or look it up online.nice talking to ya, im done debating with you. peace :)

[muttamutta]

@ChemicalMikeUK Since english isn't my native tounge I may have used the wrong word. Hydrogen is a fuel and as i mentioned, it has negative EROEI. Thus it's only an energy source for vehicles. With a negative EROEI it's definately nothing more than a fuel, but for the car it's an energy source. Ok?

And no, it's not a battery if you have the chemical reaction of a fuel as the source for energy. 2H2 + O2 -> H2O + energy. It gets burned. In a battery only electrones move.

Kapish?

[ChemicalMikeUK]

@muttamutta actually hydrogen IS like a battery, it is NOT an energy source, it is an energy CARRIER. funny how you quoted all those little factiods,(good to see someone doing their research), but failed to come across that fact as well. you should ask a physics teacher, he or she will tell you this as well. anyways,im still not sold on the idea of hydrogen as a fuel. no amount of factoids is going to change that. nice debating with you. peace :)