Julian Jaynes, 1 of 3

About Julian Jaynes' "Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" and how it parallels in some ways Daniel Quinn's "Ishmael". Quinn's "Takers" (the Cains) are the equivalent of Jaynes' conscious people and the "Leavers" (the Abels) of Quinn are the bicamerals of Jaynes. Bicameral = objective; conscious = subjective. The preconscious hypostasis: thumos, phrenes, kradie & etor are the internal signals which become transposed into the internal "I" of consciousness. The song clip at the beginning is from Habib Koite & Bamada, Muso Ko, Din Din Wo (Little Child).

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Julian
• Jaynes
• consciousness
• objective
• subjective
• Daniel
• Quinn
• Ishmael
• bicameral

[MrFoggytop]

I am stunned by your connection between Quinn and Jaynes. I have had the same thoughts. I am confused, though, by Gobekli Tepe... a civilization between 11 and 12,000 years old that seems to have metaphorical representation in their artwork.

[CliffKFF]

@MrFoggytop -- "...seems to have metaphorical representation..." may be the key operative there, because although a fascinating and surprising discovery, there is still a lot to be learned about the origin and dynamic of Gobekli Tepe. It could revolutionize archaeology or it could somehow reinforce what is already known. It would be interesting to hear what metaphor(s) you may be referring to in their artwork.

[maddcow666ink]

The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind is one of the greatest books I have ever read. It is a must read for anyone who wants a greater understanding on the evolution of consciousness!!

[CliffKFF]

totally agree with that statement

[dnHooligan]

Sounds like an interesting book. I added it to my 'list.' I think I see the correlation you mentioned.

[CliffKFF]

thanks dn, especially for the prompting you provided in getting me to finish Ishmael, I was glad I did because it added another dimension to the history provided by Jaynes. I think I'm beginning to see how the "Leavers" may be taking on an important new role in planet earth, one which the "Takers" would be hard put to fill.

[proberush]

So... does anyone have a copy of the book they'd be willing to share; digital or otherwise? I have not the amount of federal blood-money required to purchase it :<

[icebear1946]

In the case of idols and idolatry and the practices Jaynes described involving them, no explanation other than mass hallucination suffices. Try searching on 'jaynes' and 'crime' for the bearfabrique description.

[icebear1946]

Biggest problem is thinking that the phenomena Jaynes described had always been hallucinations. Try a Youtube search on 'jaynes' and 'nature of the discovery'

[bludolf]

I heard about Julian Jaynes just tonight after listen to an excerpt by terence mckenna, I am now looking to read the book. I thank you I think this will help me on my journey and fill in some empty spaces.

[dnHooligan]

It frightens me that we are in the midst of a mass extinction...the likes of which this planet hasn't seen since the fall of the dinosaurs. It scares me, because no one is scared.