Michael Collins - Hero or Villain?

A short potted history using 'real footage' from the period. The video looks at the campaign to get the Anglo-Irish Peace Treaty accepted, the reactions to the Treaty; including the Civil War and the untimely death of Collins himself.

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[yoyoholck]

thumbs up if you beleive in united ireland, it makes me sick that my family have to live up north with the brits

[BestSoapCharacter]

your video and commentary are not good and the name of your video - hero or villain- again shows your ignorance of the facts, you are just posting a you tube video to get your name on you tube but you wont go down in any history book.

[ljfoto55]

@Ranillon When you hold a gun against the head of someone to sign a treaty, it ceases to be a treaty. This is what the Brits did. They were the real villains in all of this and it is them who caused the split in the Irish, which is what would have been intended. The Brits circulated propaganda claiming that the anti-treaty IRA were anti Protestant, when in fact most of the enemy they killed were Catholics. This was designed by the Brits to divide Ireland by religion too, which it did.

[ljfoto55]

@Ranillon That is so untrue. After my Great Uncle and Reggie Dunn killed the Field Marshall in England responsible for all the atrocities by the Brits in the War if Ind, Churchill ordered Collins to remove the IRA from the 4 Courts in Dublin or he would get the British army to do it. Collins borrowed the artillery from Brit. to fire on his own people. Collins had good intentions in the War of Independence,but when he obeyed the Churchill, he crossed the line and became a traitor.

[ljfoto55]

@Ranillon That not true ! Collins left the demonstration at the 4 courts remain and tried to ignore them. He was ordered by Churchill to remove them or the British army would remove them. Collins obliged and attacked his own people with cannons that he borrowed from the Brits. You forget to look at the history of the War if Independence and the atrocities the Brits did. No treaty pledging allegiance to the crown could ever be accepted by the family victims of these atrocities.

[ljfoto55]

@Ranillon Go to youtube and put this link in..I can't post the link here as it will not let me..."watch?v=HFlaeAb0pH8"

[ljfoto55]

@Ranillon Yes , legally he did have the right to sign, but was told by de Valera that they had to bring back any proposals to the Ireland . De Valera was the leader of the Irish when he sent Collins to England and Collins & crew should have brought the proposal back before signing. The Brits forced him to sign. I am not saying that that is where he betrayed Ireland. I have done a heap of research adn the facts are there. I can't post the links here. It won't let me. Give me an email ad. to send

[Ranillon]

@ljfoto55 And where is your evidence for such an absurd claim? If so much of the Irish people were pro-British like that then all of Ireland would still be part of the UK! Your claim here fails the basic logic test. Likewise, you accuse Collins of out-and-out treason, but again provide no facts or even logic to back up such extreme claims. It sounds a lot more like you are just voicing prejudice without caring if it has any basis in reality!

[Ranillon]

@ljfoto55 He DIDN'T obey any order from the British. He obeyed the order from HIS OWN GOVERNMENT to put down a pack of rebels. The government did so in part because the British were threatening war if the Irish didn't get their act together. That's the only influence the British had over the matter. To his credit Collins and the government tried repeatedly to broker some sort of deal, but the anti-treaty faction refused every time -- and thus brought the war down on themselves.

[Ranillon]

@ljfoto55 But, he WAS given the right to sign the treaty (as was everyone else in the Irish delegation). If you don't believe me look it up. You are confusing the fact that people like de Valera said they SHOULD have been consulted first with the idea that he HAD to be consulted. He didn't -- those working on the treaty had the power to sign whatever deal they made.

So, before making accusations that are just flat out wrong I suggest actually doing some research first!

[ljfoto55]

@Ranillon ..The ones who voted against the fake treaty...about 50% ...were those who fought for Brit. in WW1 and came back seeking Independence and had their houses burnt, the women raped, children killed and men murdered indiscriminitely. They could not surrender to the tyranny of the Brits, which was blatant in this case. Collins sided with the enemy when he took orders from Churchill to kill his own people. The Brits wanted to split Ireland to win. Collins and co. fell for the trap.

[ljfoto55]

@Ranillon How can it be anhy Independence if Collins obeyed orders from Britain to kill his own people and fire cannons at them. I suppose if you took a vote in Germany in WW2 they would vote would be for Hitler, but that didn't mean it was right. They would vote that way out of fear of reprisals from their own leaders. The same with Collins and his collusion with the Brits by telling the people they would be attacked by Britain if they didn't agree. Hardly a democratic vote.