The Great Rapture Debate: Dr Thomas Ice & Richard Perry

An exchange between Dr Thomas Ice and Richard Perry about the timing of the Rapture. Recorded during a Calvery Chapel Prophecy Conference in 2001.

Category:

News & Politics

Tags:

• EndTime
• LastDays
• SecondComing
• Bible
• Prophecy
• Antichrist
• Tribulation
• Rapture
• Resurrection
• Jerusalem
• JewishTemple
• Daniel

[MrSoulja87]

Rapture is before the 7 year tribualtion period. The Gloirus comign at the end of the tribulation period includes the gathering of all post trib saints.

[richardperry2]

@MrSoulja87 - who told you that?

[shofaruk]

@MrSoulja87 Strange how the Lord Jesus in his greatest message (Olivet discourse) on the end times didn't once mention a return before the tribulation. The only gathering he mentioned is after the tribulation.

Also speaking to his closest friends he continually said "When you see, when you see." Why say this to his followers if they were not going to be there? The argument is that he was speaking to the Jews but actually he was speaking to his disciples not disbelieving Jews.

[richardperry2]

@shofaruk - Excellent observation and Straight to the point.

[Hooverdarnit]

OOPS. I may be wrong. In Matthew 24: 30-42 it looks like there is no rapture, just the second coming. Either way, now is the time to prepare for the second coming. Glory to God.

[richardperry2]

You are not wrong. This is about the Second Coming.

It is at the Second Coming that Christ gathers all His people, including the catching up of those alive and left.

[MPPFLIPP]

@shofaruk The reason is that it was & was being kept a 'mystery" as Paul taught, or a Secrete, . GOD allowed the "mystery" to be revealed by Paul to keep satan in the dark. Since satan does all he can to destroy, disrupt, stop, curtail any actions the Church is here for. GOD has hidden many various subjects from satan thru the years to keep him off-base.

[AllForYeshua]

@SRamdhani1 What you miss, brother, is that the darkess moments in Biblical history were not about God's children being removed from the troubles at hand, but about God's children turning their hearts from God & toward the things of this world. If this world is getting darker, God's children need to look within themselves & not at physical Israel. We're the one's who are to carry God's light to a darkened world. If the world is getting darker, we are responsible.

[AllForYeshua]

@SRamdhani1 Do you really think that Paul missed this regarding himself and that it was for a time yet to come that he would not be present for? We do know that he is with the Lord now & that he is not coming back down here again to be resurrected with the Lord a second time. There's no rapture in scripture. The day that I die, today, tomorrow, or years in the future is when I will be caught up with the Lord. Same as Jesus. Same as Paul. The same yesterday, today, & forever. 1 Thessalonians 4:17

[AllForYeshua]

@SRamdhani1 When Jesus resurrected from the grave, His spiritual Kingdom, the Jerusalem that is above, began. The Eternal Kingdom is the real thing, not the one passing away. It's so easy to fixate on a physical kingdom, but Jesus brought down that temple & resurrected a new. The one in the middle east is as dead as any country around. A peace treaty with another country can't make it more dead than it already is. God's children are not in a specific race/flesh. Jesus said look up, not down.

[SRamdhani1]

@AllForYeshua Dan.1-3 shows that Great Tribulation begins with the Resurrection of the just. Great Tribulation is the 2nd 3 1/2 years of Daniel's '70th week. It begins when Israel signs a 7 year peace deal with their neighbours. It is not yet fulfilled.

[AllForYeshua]

@SRamdhani1 Dan 12:1-3 is the beginning of what we see fulfilled in Matt 27:52 and continues to this day as more are raised from death to Eternal life through Christ Jesus. So many people live to see the miraculous with their physical eyes and miss that the miraculous is in the receiving of the HS, whom births Eternity in those who belong to Christ Jesus. This is the fulfillment of Ez 37/1 Cor 12. The dead are raised and continue to be.

[SRamdhani1]

@AllForYeshua In Daniel chapter 12;1-3 shows that the Resurrection (Rapture) comes in the midst of Daniel's week when Great Tribulation begins. Jesus confirms this in Luke chapter 17:24-36.

[AllForYeshua]

@SRamdhani1

In the Book of Acts, Paul refers to those from Berea as being noble because they took all that he preached to them and sought the teachings out within the context of the scriptures, the Law and the Prophets. Other than the many interpretations of the Book of Daniel, where might you find any scripture in the OT that refers to a rapture event & endtime tribulation?

[axe414]

@Denemoore I agree with you

[Denemoore]

@Hooverdarnit ok so you think that verse about one taken one left behind is clear? did you read the rest of the verse which describes the elements of the earth melting away simultaneously?. the guy left behind is melted.