Theist Vs Atheist Debate: "Does God Not Exist?" (Part 2/3)

Uploaded with permission.

January 5th, 2003 at Islamic Institute of New York.

First Edition

Tawheed Institute

http://www.tawheed1.org


Read the transcript at http://www.madressa.org

Length: 2 hours 45 minutes

A historic debate between Hassanain Rajabali [Muslim] and Dan Barker [Atheist].

Moderated by Mohamed Athar Lila.

This is a series of events organized by the Tawheed Institute after the September 11 crisis with the aim to foster better understanding between people of different denominations.

Some Quotes:

"Another argument, against the existence of god of course, is the problem of evil: All you have to do is walk into any children's hospital - and you know there is no god. Children are in pain, they are suffering, their parents are desperately praying for god to protect them." - Dan Barker

"We're relative creatures, and that is how we understand things, and we can never have a conception of something that is bad, until we understand what is good. That reality, that co-existence is necessary in this world. If one wants to say that evil should not exist then the earth should not exist. You and I should not exist, trial should not exist, and exam should not exist. Rather we are in a system where we understand that evil is there." - Hassanain Rajabali

"Yes, I am under trial, if I could have stopped September 11, I would have but "God is not under trial." So it is irrelevent to for Him."
- Hassanain Rajabali

"No matter what they [the Atheists] thought of Hassanain's arguments, they all agree that he was pleasant and articulate. He shows a good face of Islam." -Dan Barker, after the debate

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• atheist
• islam
• theist
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• God
• Allah
• dialgue

[truebeliever786]

@malsifood It only counts what Muslims do? That's ridiculous, because Muslims can do all sorts of crap, like suicide-bombing, murdering, stealing, gambling, fornicating, drinking alcohol, does that make it part of Islam? Don't think so.

Khizr wasn't a Prophet, but a man of great knowledge and one of God's chosen ones, above most Prophets I must say. See, Khizr knew the unseen, so he could judge the child. We don't. We're not Prophets. We live in totally different situations.

[malsifood]

@truebeliever786

But Khizr is a prophet and he tells Moses how to behave properly!

The quran never ever mentions that these verses are not to be considered! No! It even mentiones that if you think you only consider what you like then you are going to burn in hell!

The corrupt scholars is you! You are full of shit, believing all kinds of idiocies that have no backup in history whatsoever!

In the end it only counts what muslims do, no what they say! They either use violence or tolerate it!

[truebeliever786]

@malsifood The whole passage is descriptive, Moses isn't the Prophet of our time, Mohammad is, therefore his example isn't the Law.

No, the problem of Muslims is that they get brainwashed by corrupt scholars who twist the meaning for their own political agendas... That's all it is. The Qur'an on the other hand, forbids killing yourself (Surah an-Nisa 4:29), murdering innocents (Surah al-Ma'idah 5:32) and all forms of discrimination (Surah al-Hujarat 49:13).

[malsifood]

@truebeliever786

Where in the quran does it say that it is a description?

You cannot find it!

No you are always telling me how you would like it to be!! But Islam is not the way you try to tell me! It is absolute bullshit!

Nobody takes it out of context nor anybody get's it wrong!

The problem of muslims is: They have blind faith in primitiive text! Why? Due to brainwashing!! Scolars do not learn to reason, scolars must copy the arab text of the quran! That is brainwashing!

Shame on you!

[truebeliever786]

@malsifood It is a description, Moses isn't the Prophet of our time, although he was a great man and a great Prophet, he was the Prophet of the Israelites, Mohammad (SAWW) is the Prophet of our time and in His Law, the final Law, it never says to do that...

People who do that are just interpreting the Qur'an to their own desires, that doesn't make the Qur'an wrong, it makes them wrong. There's criminals who interpret all sorts of religious/political texts to their advantage.

[malsifood]

@truebeliever786

Who cares what the bible says? You? I don't believe it!

It is not a description that happened long ago! Otherwise everything in the quran happened long ago (or never happened at all) Khizr is showing Moses how to behave properly!!

However! How come Mulsims kill their daughters it they happen to fall in love with a Kufar boyfriend?

This verse is the explanation for it!

What a bullshit!

You really think the quran is phantastic? It is rather fantastic bullshit!

[truebeliever786]

@malsifood That verse you quoted is about Moses, it describes something that happened a long time ago. Its not a prescription, you'll find the same verse in the Bible too.

DESCRIPTION NOT PRESCRIPTION...

[truebeliever786]

@malsifood Slavery? Was there slavery in Al-Andalus (Islamic Spain)? No...

Peope lived there by trade, work and advancement. In the 10th century there was gas lighting, surgery (which was used until World War 1), advanced architecture, literature, flowing water, sewage system, all of which are modern ideas, yet they were there over 1000 years ago in Muslim lands.

What do you say about that? Oh, that's right. Nothing.

[malsifood]

@truebeliever786

The worst of all animals are those who don't believe! Because you fucking idiots cannot belive that there are people that reject to believe in bullshit!

About the verse: let me copy it directly from the quran: (the young men was slained because) "his parents are true believers, and we feared lest he would grieve them with his rebellion and unbelief", so it is enough to kill your kids if you only fear they would grieve you with unbelief!!! What a bullshit!

Tell me the vers #!

[malsifood]

@truebeliever786

If there has been a Islamic society that has flourished it was based on slavery!

All wars of the reasonable people against the primitive muslim mob was because of piracy and slavery!!

Stelaing things makes you rich but stupid!