free will/determinism: clarifications and additions

please watch my first video about the topic, its the one i uploaded before this video, ill also post this as a video-response as soon as it finished processing.

the introduction to rozeboosje's video series about free will:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWsGynofKLo

one thing i forgot to mention: some kind of input is essential, without input it would not be possible to get something like consciousness/free will in an deterministic system.

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[moegreen2]

how do you solve the problem of the existence of conscious decisions? Hi again. One way to look at it, is that the consciousness is only a screen where some of the thoughts of our "unconscious brain" are slipping throu. The consciousness wil then believe: "because I am forming these words, they are created by me, I am not a screen where thoughts from the unconsiousness sometimes stick to." It would be like a calculator believe it is solving math. problems, when it is a person doing the typing.

[moegreen2]

I think the consciousness is there for some problem solving issues that the unconsious brain can not do. Because we only "hear" what the conscious brain thinks, we think we are the conscious brain, and that we have control. Have you ever done something and later found out that you did not want to do it. It was a reaction from your emotions. But now your emotions have changed so you can not rationalize your actions. If you had not changed emotional state you could rationalize and feel in control.

[kurtilein3]

there is not much that you can rationalize when you are a very skeptical person and make heavy use of concepts like the scientific method. when you make a mistake, often you just have to accept that your brain or you or something screwed up and that a mistake has been made, by you, your brain, doesnt matter, for the rest of the planet you made the mistake.

if people can justify anything stupid that they have done, just because they feel like it, that would seem very immature to me.

[kurtilein3]

moegreen: your view of consciousness of being a mirror of subconsciously selected aspects of subconsciousness is correct. only if you are alone in a prison cell.

but i can add wikipedia articles, research papers, communicate with friends or experts. i can use parts of the meme-pool of our species to break some of the barriers that follow from your prison-cell view of consciousness. and what happens when you combine 10 brains, and get them to cooperate?

[tiecuando]

Conditioning is more plausible than causality. So, can you recondition your mind to do other things?

[moegreen2]

I cant see how my idea is limiting behavior in any way, plz explain. I guess the conscious mind can have other tasks like reprogramming. But I don't think it's making decisions. If it's the subconscious or couscous part deciding, what difference does it make?

[moegreen2]

Not justify, but rationalize. Like: I did that because I was angry. Of course they later can see that they have made a mistake. But the part of the brain that can see the mistake can not have been the part that was active when the deed was done? And I agree with you on the justification part.

[tk050305cnx]

Hmm. Of course, the brain can do what a Turing machine can do. The question is: can it do more than that? -It would appear so.- It can understand mathematics for example, as Penrose argued, and it can also perceive beauty. These are things that cannot be computed, or can they? In my view consciousness is the key to indeterminism, not brain functions. Consciousness isn't based on the brain, but the brain is based on consciousness.

[kurtilein3]

we are pushing the comment system to its limits, i would suggest to switch to a more appropriate way of communication, PMs.

ill respond to your last two comments in a personal message.