Omni VERSUS Omni!

...Why I think a certain atheistic argument is crap, and what I think it should be replaced with.

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[rcguy69]

Free Will is a turkey of concept. Or am I reading you wrong? All this talk about God's omniscience (for argument's sake) infers that God is capable of creating free agents without compromising his own omnipotence and omniscience. Free agents should be able to overcome the laws of physics. If they can't then what we call free will is simply inevitable choice.

[debateyourfaith]

Hey theo, since you havent been in the DF room for AGES Its kinda dead now anyways, we've called the OMNIness a paradox for several years. In addition since this paradox applied to god shows that god cant have free will since he cant change and all things are past tense, then the question is, how can god give something to man, that it doesnt have?

I still argue that if its known, there is no choice, if there is no choice then all things are predetermined and in accordance to THE PLAN

[TwistedLemniscate]

Wow, I've never really thought about how both omni's cannot coexist, doesn't really surprise me though, as alone they are self-contradictory anyway.

[StandardAI]

What if skepticism canceled out belief? What if we are manifestations of god? I think when thinking of free will we should think of time travel paradoxes, according the science the higgs boson is everywhere, and yet unobserved.

[machinedean100]

I here people say knowledge is power all the time especially atheists. So, if being all knowing does not make one all powerful. Then I guess knowledge is not power. Yes god is timeless there for immutable. So, god can only do what he wants to do and that never changes. The old lady could change here mind. God if he never wanted to do it then he never will.

P.S does this guys still make vids or not. He looks like we could be related. He looks just like my dad and my bro.

[Bitsofchips]

hey scott, in case you were wondering, this argument has was mentioned on the atheist experience (680, bout 27 mins in). you probably made this argument more famous. just used it in a paper recently too. reminds me of... the paradox of omnipotent (god making a rock so heavy that he can't lift), and only theist response is move the goal post. "well... omnipotent only means.... blah blah blah."

anyways, props for awesome video.

[messakg123]

But just to be clear, im an atheist and i think youre brilliant! Esp your vids on kalam and TAG :) would love to hear to back from you with what you think of my critique!

[messakg123]

Edit to previous comment, i meant to say "therefore your argument fails for the same reason as the omnipotence paradox"

[messakg123]

Ahh but god simeltaneously parting the red sea and not parting the red sea is a violation of the law of non-contradiction which makes it *logically* impossible, not *physically* impossible and therefore fails for the same reason as the omnipotence paradox

[Desophistic]

Hi. Great video.

I have heard this argument before and have used it often, but nice to see others popularise it too.

Ps. I have come across a variant of this, saying that god sees 'all possible outcomes' of an infinite-multiverse thus allowing him both omniscient and choice over which track to go down. To this I responded: Is god capable of acting differently to any of these foreseen variants or foresee which track will occur? And we are back to square 1.

Thanks again. :)