Dialogue on Prostitution and Capitalism #1

http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Ethics-Communication-Valerie-Peterson/dp/1609270258... I am posting this against my better judgment. Many apologies for my loud interruptions. The mic was too close to me, and I am, obviously, a big mouth.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• prostitution
• capitalism
• feminism
• dialogue
• exploitation
• liberation
• economic
• news
• politics
• spirituality

[TheHeather1985]

illegal will hurt both the prostitutes and the johns, which will exist no matter how you structure your society, it is just a fact of life. If you legalize it, you allow for regulation, worker representation, drive violent pimps out of the market, and allow for cleaner and safer working environments for all.

Everyone can play this child like 'ought' game, but everyone needs to realize what 'ought' is not what 'is', and we need to have a dialogue of what 'IS'.

[TheHeather1985]

From what I'm hearing the Marxist and Radical feminists are being far too ideal. The facts are:

1) There will always be a demand for prostitution

2) There will be women who are willing (whatever the circumstance) to 'get ahead' via prostitution.

3) Making a good or service that has a great enough demand only makes the good or service available in black markets.

4) Black markets don't offer worker representation or consumer protections.

So we can conclude that making prostitution (cont)

[mickGPN]

(2) Equally, talking about providing safe-working conditions for prostitutes ends up, in reality, just opening the door for a free-market fundamentalism which only pays lip-service to such safe-guards (Eg in New Z the government doesn't even keep a list of the addresses of brothels, so they can do random checks.) What's needed is for us, as a society, to find ways to fight back against capitalism's drive to commodify our lives. (Anyway, I've sent you one of my 20 vids on this subject - enjoy :-)

[mickGPN]

(1) To understand "the Marxist angle" as "sex is a form of work" does have a basis in his writings. But I'd say it's much more useful to see prostitution in terms another of his insights - i.e. that capitalism can only survive by turning more and more of our authentic responses into commodities // Talking about what sort of rights we're going to give to atomised-individuals in a mythical free-market system is not really the best way to look at it. (cont...)

[otonanoC]

The various laws on prostitution and whether those laws are enforced varies wildly from nation to nation. We can understand this variability by first asking whether the act of selling sex is criminalized, or whether the act of buying it is criminalized. In situations involving trafficking of women, the selling is considered criminal. Whereas in Sweden, the buying is considered the crime.

[alowlyapprentice]

@2bsirius I don't know if you saw Pyrhho's video, but he suggested that all brothels be employee owned and run. I thought that was a good idea worth exploring. He did not title his vid so it could be found. For obvious reasons, I think. watch?v=p9ZNkvM9_ak

[alowlyapprentice]

I know a few former prostitutes and they just can't voice their views because of the differences between subject perspective when it comes to this topic. And that difference keeps them hidden for fear of the social and economic consequences. These voices are left out of much of the debate/discussion. Some of us have one arm tied behind our backs. Great start to a dialogue. Sorry I showed up late for the party. *sigh.

[2bsirius]

@iamcuriousblue

Sighing and laughing at the same time.

OK...Sure...Whatever

[iamcuriousblue]

@2bsirius

The only point I wish to add is that although I'm not interested in dialogue with you in particular, expect me to call you out if you continue misrepresenting and strawmanning pro-decriminalization positions in the future.

[iamcuriousblue]

@2bsirius

Well, all I have to say is I've seen this playbook before. Make shitty mischaracterizations of other people's positions, then play the victim when you get a negative response over it.

I really don't know what your motivations are for so grotesquely mischaracterizing the positions and understanding of the relevant issues of the pro-decrim side. I just wish you'd just come right out and say who or what you have it in for and why. You clearly have some kind of axe to grind.

[2bsirius]

@iamcuriousblue

I think we've ended the usefulness of this exchange. I can only say that your response is both insulting and inaccurate, but considering the history of your hundreds of similar comments on many, many videos this kind of insult is predictable.

Good luck in learning how to make cogent, coherent arguments.