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Negative vs Positive liberty

From BBC's "The Trap: What happened to our dreams of Freedom? Part 3 - We will Force you to be free"  
 
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Hansinelchen (2 weeks ago) Show Hide
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ISAIAH BERLIN.....wat a Legend!!!
TheEllipsisPoints (4 weeks ago) Show Hide
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True freedom needn't be defined. The fact that there are even two choices, negative vs positive liberty, suggests that we are limited to either one or the other (or both if it is possible to create a hybrid where we are coerced into doing only what pleases us), and freedom, by definition, should have no limit. Most of us, aren't ready to think, feel, do for ourselves. When people want freedom, they will have freedom. Our present reality indicates or desire to be controlled.
scotty123123 (1 month ago) Show Hide
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Berlin never actually said any of the stuff this illiterate documentary ascribes to him. By the way, Berlin was a man of the LEFT - which you might have missed if your only acquaintance with him came from watching television programs like this. He also never advocated negative liberty over positive liberty. He merely resented the conflation between such differing concepts
purplecharger88 (4 weeks ago) Show Hide
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Well at the end of it the video does bring it up that he mentions that people shouldn't believe that Negative Liberty is an absolute ideal. It also never suggests that he is right or left. It simply states that people should be left to decide for themselves what is good for them and that no ideal either right or left is perfect or be considered as an absolute ideal that all must follow.
goPistons06 (1 month ago) Show Hide
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Does anyone know the name of the music at 3:20? thank you.

by the way, i think this video is great it explains well the importance of freedom. i believe the the more free people are, the more likely they are to pursuing their own good, and consequently, the "common good". let's strive for limiting the size of government and power in general!
ahoinuk (2 months ago) Show Hide
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Near the end of the video, the commentator tells us that Berlin thinks negative freedom, when seen as an absolute ideal, becomes coercive. Was he suppose to say positive freedom? How does negative freedom lead to coercion? Thanks for the clarification!
MightyBobzilla (2 months ago) Show Hide
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'ahoinuk' he is saying that the belief that any ideal or any set of ideals is the one truth will lead to people willingly commiting violence towards others, this unfortunatly creates a paradox where negative does seem like the ultimate goal but because it seems like the ONE true answer, the exercution of changing society to this way will inevitably lead to its transformation into a positive liberty and the insuing of violence.
ps sorry for spelling mistakes, there must be some there
ahoinuk (1 month ago) Show Hide
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Thanks MightyBobzilla. I was wondering why negative freedom, instead of it's transformation into positive freedom, was said to create this coercion. It seems to me that positive liberty is any ideal that proclaims itself absolute. Is this claim to general?
ahoinuk (2 months ago) Show Hide
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Positive freedom, to me, is the idea that there is a right way to live that will be beneficial for everyone, and if everyone had the insight and honesty to understand this ideal, they would most certainly agree. People have used this logic as justification for murdering people who do not agree to this higher, more just form of living. From religious institutions to brutal dictators. Power, when combined with positive freedom or the idea that I am right, and you are wrong, is a dangerous mix.
fomastephanovitch (2 months ago) Show Hide
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Imagine a politician standing up and saying "I'm going to do less for you!"

I now understand why educated, non-guilty people vote for these kinds of politicians.

Education is the answer, and by education I mean actually teaching people substantive, tangible facts about reality, rather than shuffling them through institutions to meet a quota.

The way we're going right now is so wrong!

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