Dennett vs McGrath - Part 9 of 9

This is a debate at the Royal Institution in London between philosopher Daniel C Dennett and professor of theology Alister McGrath. The debate is on the ideas presented in Dennett's book Breaking the Spell, such as the concept of the meme and the evolution of religion.
The debate is moderated by Madeleine Bunting.

Daniel Clement Dennett (born March 28, 1942 in Boston, Massachusetts) is a prominent American philosopher whose research centers on philosophy of mind, philosophy of science and philosophy of biology, particularly as those fields relate to evolutionary biology and cognitive science. He is currently the co-director of the Center for Cognitive Studies, the Austin B. Fletcher Professor of Philosophy, and a University Professor at Tufts University. Dennett is also a noted atheist and advocate of the Brights movement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Dennett

Alister Edgar McGrath (born 23 January 1953) is a Christian theologian, who holds both a DPhil (in molecular biophysics) and an earned Doctor of Divinity degree from Oxford. He is noted for his work in historical, systematic and scientific theology.

In his writing and public speaking, he promotes "scientific theology" and opposes antireligionism. McGrath was until recently Professor of Historical Theology at the University of Oxford, but has now taken up the chair of Theology, Religion and Culture at King's College London since September 2008. Until 2005, he was principal of Wycliffe Hall.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alister_McGrath

Category:

Education

Tags:

• debate
• God
• religion
• atheism
• atheist
• meme
• Christian
• Breaking
• the
• Spell
• Daniel
• Dennett
• Alister
• McGrath

[Aon0]

McGrath completely misunderstands what memes are.

'Meme' is a just label we put on ideas that are communicated between minds.

[owchywawa]

I am a christian, but I have to admit, the moderator was obviously trying to support her own agenda in the debate. It makes me sick.

[justinosmond]

@grandampersand LOL!

[grandampersand]

@Aon0 Kind of like the old idea of "atheist" in the new language "brights" - we just need to dress it up in new terminology so that it can sound like we're talking about something much more sophisticated.

[grandampersand]

@Aon0 like telepathy?

[oppenheimer12]

@owchywawa

Yer very irritating. Totally agree.

[Birdieupon]

@Aon0

"'Meme' is a just label we put on ideas that are communicated between minds."

So you admit that there is absolutely nothing scientific them? It would have been nice for people to realise this before they set up the Journal of Memetics, but perhaps they realised when they closed it down.

So, so far, memes are either just a useless metaphor (in Dawkins' and Dennett's case, for religious ideas you don't like) or things which undermine all rationality (all ideas are "caught" as memes)!

[Chiangmai007]

Hymnofashes~

Dennett's use of meme theory is not only condescending, but when its stripped of its reasoning power it seems vacuous. While its true that bad ideas and falsehoods unfortunately survive, I think that it is for this reason that greater care needs to be spent on the truthfulness or falsity of each idea or claim. Their mere survival doesn't help us make that determination.  Jesus' observations that men are so easily deceived / behave like sheep is worth considering in this context.

[hymnofashes]

It is condescending to compare religion to a brain worm becuase religion gives as well as takes. He could find a better analogy. The point is still valid though: lots of things are untrue but some special false beliefs are very, very attractive, and you see way more of those in the world than nonsense or gibberish. That needs an explanation and memes do a good job, in my opinion.