Faith is a mental illness?!: ASK DAVID #1

Info about David:
phd stip. David Jakobsen
Teacher Danish Pentecostal Bible College
http://www.mariager-hojskole.dk/content/view/71/1/lang,en/
Hope you want to join me on this journey

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[gamutman]

@ProteusIQ A dichotomy is only false if there is a third (or more) options overlooked in the description of the dilemma. Your argument (that God's unchanging nature defines morality) is the same as saying that God's fiat determines right and wrong. And it faces the same problem; if a thing is only moral because of God's fiat, then it has no intrinsic moral quality unto itself and is subjectively moral. Otherwise we'd all come to the same moral conclusions.

[gamutman]

@ProteusIQ If that were true, then morality would have no gray areas. There'd be only one interpretation of right and wrong and it would be universal to even people who never heard of God.

However, morality is full of gray areas. There is no universal consensus on right and wrong. Therefore there is no moral law giver.

[ProteusIQ]

@gamutman Very true, one does not have to believe in a moral law giver to be moral. But that is not the case, it is the existence of Moral giver, not the belief, that enable one to be moral.

[ProteusIQ]

@gamutman, Euthyphro dilemma, argument commits False dilemma fallacy. Things are objectively right or wrong because of existence of God. God's nature is the standard for right, and going against it is objectively wrong. God can not go against his nature. Worldview eye-glasses that affect a person's view on life and the world, worldview answers is there God, is Morality objective, is there after life, etc. Thus atheism is a worldview.

[gamutman]

@JulianwithJ You're arguing that things which are objectively wrong are not objectively wrong for God. That makes them subjective. Are you familiar with the Euthyphro dilemma?

"The point which I should first wish to understand is whether the pious or holy is beloved by the gods because it is holy, or holy because it is beloved of the gods?"

[gamutman]

@JulianwithJ Right, because no atheist has eve tried that. Oh, wait ... yes, most of us have.

If you want to understand the Koran and Allah, you can always turn to him and ask him.

If you want to understand the Vedas and Vishnu, you can always turn to him and ask him.

If you wan to understand the Book of the Dead and Osiris, you can always turn to him and ask him.

If you want to understand Dianetics and Lord Xenu, you can always turn to him and ask him.

[JulianwithJ]

@gamutman If you wanna understand the bible and god, you can allways turn to him and ask him :)

[JulianwithJ]

@gamutman God can punish becuase he knows who derserve punishment in the end. We as human are not allowed to kill, that authority is not given to us. God is almighty and when he does something we have to trust its the best thing he does, and that he knows what he is doing. But im pretty sure that you think that this doesnt make sence, and thats becuase you dont believe in god, and you have not been given the holy spirit to reveal the secrets of the bible.

[gamutman]

@JulianwithJ yes, if you're going to claim that it's "objectively" wrong and not "subjectively" wrong, you do have to explain why. Especially in light of the fact that in the bible, God kills babies (Egypt most notably). In Psalms, the writer claims that those who smash the heads of babies on rocks are blessed.

[gamutman]

@ProteusIQ On your 2nd point, you are correct that an atheist who asserts that no God exists has taken on the burden of proof for that position. But there is a difference between saying, "I believe there is no God," and saying "I do not believe in any God I have ever been told about." If you are a Christian, then you do not believe in Valhalla. Is it your responsibility (your burden) to prove that it doesn't exist before you claim to not believe in it? Do you disbelieve in Valhal on blind faith?