Part 1 - Hugh Ross & Jason Lisle: The "Thousands or Billions" Debate

Hugh Ross is the founder and president of Reasons to Believe (reasons.org), and is both an astrophysicist (Ph.D., University of Vancouver) and a pastor, the author of over a dozen books, including his latest, Why The Universe Is The Way It Is.

Here is the discussion of the other debate he refers to and the assessment of it by other astronomers.
http://www.reasons.org/astronomers-age-of-universe
http://www.reasons.org/files/astronomers-statement.pdf

Jason Lisle is with Ken Ham's Answers in Genesis (answersingenesis.org), and he's the designer of their Creation Museum in Cincinnati, his Ph.D. in astrophysics is from the University of Colorado, and his latest book is The Ultimate Proof of Creation: Resolving The Origins Debate.

Category:

Science & Technology

Tags:

• astronomy
• creation
• evoluton
• bible
• hugh
• ross
• jason
• lisle
• answers
• in
• genesis
• reasons
• to
• believe
• physics
• origins
• cosmology

[pimplahdon]

the #1 argument agenst hugh ross is no one in history before 1820 would ever have yowm meaning hundreds of thousands of years ALSO no one would never ever ever have the bible saying a local flood or death before Adam fell like hugh ross does! (look at his false teaching,he believes this crap)

3117 [e]yō·wm י֥וֹם day is defined BY CONTEXT this should be obvious! hugh ross ignores context. just by him using yowm out of context to prove his point in his argument shows you he a deluded and wrong

[pimplahdon]

@CalumAtheron the word is never translated "at long last". either way it doesn't make a difference. Adam named many animals to select a wife for himself.

example

if you looked at 5,000cars then choose one. would you say something like "finally!"

a question i have is. if each day was thousands of years. how can you justify Adam being 930 when he died? (he lived through the 6th day remember)

[pimplahdon]

@updr12 correct ~updr~ the bible can contradict itself over 500times if you pick and choose verses without keeping in mind context and rules of grammar aswell as doctrine.

this is what hugh ross does. he ignores what the bible actually says.

[pimplahdon]

if you study what hugh ross believes it very easy to see he changes MULTIPLE foundational doctrine in order for his view to fit his false science conclusions. the one that is VERY easy to disprove biblically is his local flood lie. this is one of the doctrine he changes i disprove this in under 5min form the bible undeniably in  my video "hugh ross exposed (local flood) lie"

hugh ross is a cult leader.

he uses science to decide what the bible says

he ignores context

his is arrogant

[updr12]

@CalumAtheron "I have not seen a counter-argument on YEC websites yet"

A counter-argument to what??? It is Ross' assertion that this word is translated as "at long last" in EVERY scripture except for in Gen 2. Where are all these "other" translations? I haven't been able to find them. You don't have to be an expert on Hebrew! We have online resources as well as multiple translations available.

[updr12]

@CalumAtheron The same thing is done by people trying to defend all kinds of lifestyles that the Bible condemns. All you need to do is metaphorise selected verses and you can get it to say what you want it to say, rather than what it actually says.

[updr12]

@CalumAtheron However, what is more important is that being of an old earth conviction necessitates a great deal of scriptural manipulation to get it to "make sense", and that is never a good thing. Both my parents were occultists and astrologers and yet claimed to be Christians. They did this simply by doing the very same kind of manipulation that OECs rely on.

[updr12]

@CalumAtheron I'm not going to repeat arguments that I have already addressed, so I hope you understand that. Whether or not olam is used beyond "eternal" is perhaps disputable since some scholars don't seem to do that, but I think the the argument that mountains and hills are not eternal still stands.

[CalumAtheron]

@updr12 "Neither is there any indication in Strongs that "at long last" is the primary translation of this word. Hmm..."

Perhaps it is not the primary translation, but it more than likely as not means something very similar. I'm no expert on Hebrew, but I have not seen a counter-argument on YEC websites yet... if you come across one, please post a link or direct me to the website.. until I find one, "hap-pa-'am" remains 'at long last'.