IDOAR #6 - Q&A: Example of Altruism

A response to Sergio, who asked for an example of altruism.

Category:

News & Politics

Tags:

• altruism
• Ayn
• Rand
• Objectivism
• Objectivist
• selfishness

[Orygyn]

Hold on a second, if altruism is helping others without seeking benefit then if you boil it down as far as it can go, surely there's no possible altruistic act? For example, if you hear someone complaining that they don't have enough money to get food and you give them that money, you would have to want to do it. Doing things you want to do benefits you emotionally, or just mentally in general, whether you consciously intend it to or not. Does the definition go that far?

[PaulMcKeever]

Orygyn: you are speaking about "psychological egoism". Rand's "rational egoism" says not "whatever you want to do, it is right for you to do it". Rather, it says: "Even if you feel otherwise, do only the rational actions that will, in fact, most help you to survive and to acquire the material and spiritual values upon which your happiness depend.

[panthergod]

Thank you for providing more evidence that ayn randians are clearly insane.

the concepts of honor and ethical integrity mean nothing to this philsophy.

[PaulMcKeever]

If you had read any Ayn Rand at all, you would know how incorrect your statement is.

[Leoncharlesblanc]

Tell me, have you even seen/played/read of Bioshock and it's approach to Objectivism? It's a rather honest scenario, that a man creates a city, a civilization where men could become kings through hard work and wry ideals. Only problem? He realizes that he'll lose control to another, and is unwilling to do so, causing the city to fall into bedlam. Now tell me, is that because the one chose to break his own rules, or the constant flaw of trying to make a society out of Rand's 'laws'?

[PaulMcKeever]

I've played Bioshock. There is little explanation in it of how society fell apart, although it seems fairly obvious that plasmids somehow drove everyone mad. Ryan's arch enemy turns out to be, more or less, a communist and a union leader, who organizes the citizenry to violate other individuals' life, liberty and property.

The flaw wasn't Rand's philosophy. It was people who wanted something for nothing, and who were willing to use force to get it.

[jpbalkenende]

@Banjo

Even if I except that where does Altruis say you have to saccrafice anything? That's where your entire "saccraficing something of value for non value" comes from. But it doesn't mention saccrifica anywhere. Only inded selfless.

Helping a murderer kill you is not altruism.

It is not doing good without reward because it is not doing good at all. It's a rediculous example anyway because altruism doesn't require saccrafice at all. It certainly doesn't forbid it though.

[DonMeaker]

@fab006 you are correct, that is a better example. Thank you.

[fab006]

@DonMeaker Correct, but an even greater example, that illustrates the "hierarchy of values" argument would be: Yes, he is your friend, and yes, it would achieve some "value" for you to buy him a beer BUT you are broke yourself, too, and if you're going to buy him a beer, you won't be able to buy anything to eat that day. You would be sacrificing the higher value (your not going hungry that day) to the lower value (your making your friend happy). Plus, a friend who would accept that isn't one ;)

[DonMeaker]

@ThoughtGazeCarlos Is there any restriction that, because you gave blood would deny you and your family blood? Again, there is an advantage to you and me in having blood banks and their blood products available. I also have felt the smugness of committing oneself to the blood bank's continuance. Altruism? no, not really, but thanks for giving blood. It benefits me too.

[ThoughtGazeCarlos]

@DonMeaker Well, I do know my blood was given to a stranger, what follows from this?

[DonMeaker]

@tthuhta Altruism would be buying a beer for someone that was not a friend, and who was willing and able to buy his own beer, and who you would never meet again. Feeling the need to perform altruistic acts for strangers is a psychological problem. What kind of nut needs to do that?

[DonMeaker]

@ThoughtGazeCarlos They do give you those cookies and fruit juice boxes. Further, it is beneficial to live in a society where there is a blood bank, so if an accident occurs, you can survive and later heal. Donating blood is merely a small insurance payment for living in such a society.

If you gave blood, and the blood was provided to foreigners, not to you, or your family, that would be altruism.

[Tank94Mage]

@PaulMcKeever that seems stupic somthing for nothing but were willing to do somthing to get it? lol

[ThoughtGazeCarlos]

@PaulMcKeever, An altruistic act would be donating blood. I have done it hundreds of times. Every time I do it I feel dizzy and I gain nothing from such act.

[tthuhta]

Buying a beer to a friend that is broke, is an example of altruism. Why make it too complicated?