Collapse of Complex Societies by Dr. Joseph Tainter 2010 (7 of 7)

http://localfuture.org The collapse of complex societies of the past can inform the present on the risks of collapse. Dr. Joseph Tainter, author of the book The Collapse of Complex societies, and featured in Leonardo Dicaprio's film The Eleventh Hour, details the factors that led to the collapse of past civilizations including the Roman Empire.

This is part 7 of 7 of the lecture (2 of 2 of a question and answer session) of a question and answer session following Dr. Tainter's keynote talk delivered to the 2010 International Conference on Sustainability: Energy, Economy, and Environment organized by Local Future nonprofit and directed by Aaron Wissner.

Category:

News & Politics

Tags:

• collapse
• energy
• future
• local
• localfuture
• local future
• sustainability
• conference
• aaron
• wissner
• economy
• environment
• peak oil
• peakoil
• peak
• oil
• permaculture
• joseph tainter
• joseph
• tainter
• complex
• crisis
• economic

[hyhhy]

@alauc : "love, honesty, and knowledge are limitless!"

No... I'm pretty sure that even those things are not limitless.

[alauc]

All materisl and energetic resources have limits! Only love, honesty, and knowledge are limitless!

[hyhhy]

@bighands69 Energy efficiency has its limits, I think. For example, the laws of thermodynamics impose a hard limit on the possible efficiency of internal combustion engines, which also happen to be extremely common and important in the modern world. IC engines weren't much more efficient in the 1960s than today, as far as I know. Nobody would bother with the higher costs and lower performance of hybrid or electric cars if it was possible to just make the IC engine more efficient.

[vlada881]

@bighands69 Google is the search engine. I asked you where are these facts ?

[bighands69]

@vlada881

Use google to search the statements that I have made and you can find fully referenced data sets.

[vlada881]

@bighands69 Tell me the source of that imformation first.

[bighands69]

@hyhhy

The diminishing returns model is flawed at best. It is based on stationary data sets that are projected into the future. In other words todays technology projected into tomorrows.

For example it does not take systematic energy efficiency into account. Nor does it even consider engineering at present or past or future rates.

A computer in the 1960s used 1000s of times more energy than todays systems. this same negative growth patterns are also in effect today and for tomorrow.

[bighands69]

@vlada881

There is also more than 3000 years of coal under the uk. And with clean coal power stations it will be possible for the uk to have a multidimensional system of generation.

And when you model energy efficiency into energy systems there will be a point in time were an energy surplus.

distributed solar cell technology will allow for massive solar energy collection.

[bighands69]

@vlada881

Sorry but your position is heavily flawed. There is more energy on this planet than what is needed.

Sun light alone produces 10000 times more than what is required and this is only a basic observation.

Germany has been more than doubling its growth in renewable energy and at its current rate in 20 years all of germany will be renewable.

Advances in nano engineered solar cells will accelerate the rate of change its self in solar distributed energy.

[vlada881]

This guy knows what he is talking about. There are no ways to sustain civilization. How many of you people know about technology, energy and inovations. First you must learn something to know you are talking about. Very few individuals really knows the deal and the deal is the mankind is going down baby. Can you deal with that ?