Retriever training Forcing on real birds.mpg

Using 'Force-to-pile' skills for force work on real game birds

Category:

Pets & Animals

Tags:

• Dog training
• Labrador retriever training
• Hunting dog training
• Duck dog training

[Dawgmanevang]

For anyone who believes a "positive-only" approach would tend to yield superior results, I welcome someone taking a fire-breathing, high powered retriever like this one and fully training them for fieldwork. Title them MH (Master Hunter), or HRCH (Hunting Retriever Champion), or much better an FC-AFC, or even QAA (Qualified All-age). Post up your videos to provide contrast. I'll be glad to see it!

Evan

[Rituci]

1/5. The dog gets a lot of leash corrections even though he obeys, but neither time when he walks backwards instead of sitting as told. The first time he is corrected after he eventually stops walking backwards and does sit, which may explain why he does it again when he again doesn’t get corrected for it but gets a heel command instead. The next correction yanks his foot up in the air so he drops the bird in fighting to keep balance.

[Dawgmanevang]

@Rituci Well, that was quite an essay. It was an aweful lot of condemnation without a single question. This is clearly an area of fieldwork you do not understand - neither the training, nor the requirements made of a working retriever. You, as yet, know absolutely notihng of the dog, nor his history, his personality, or his traits. In other words, you've based you lengthy bashing on virtually nothing beyond your assumption. If you desire anyknowledge about this my email is rushcreekpress@aol.com

[musicofnote1]

@musicofnote1 And the list goes on. What the compulsiontists DO have is a comfortable way to "train" in which they do not need to read or comprehend anything "new" (like Pavlov or Skinner - gasp). Moreover, they don't need any real sense of ethics or morals. Just hurt whatever or whoever that is not doing what you want until they comply. Just what we need to teach our children.

[musicofnote1]

@Dawgmanevang - "positive only" is the phony term coined by those who do not understand what negative punishment is. they show their ignorance of Learning Theory (Pavlov, thorndike, Wtson, Skinner and the entire ethologists like Miklosi, Hare & Co.). In that way they don't have to actually contend with other people doing other dog sport who reach as high a level without pain, fear or intimidation. Such as Steve White training police dogs in WA. Or denise Fenzi doing Obedience. Or Robert Milner.

[burito987]

Evan your knowledge and others lack of knowledge cracks me up. Sorry im commenting on a lot of your videos but i love them all. Rituci i totally agree with Evan but he was a lot nicer than i would have been. Thank you Evan for being a great trainer and spreading your knowledge to the retriever training community.

[AgilityLover4Life]

I respect your knowledge and training methods, but I can't help wondering whether positive based training methods would be a better alternatives to using so much force and negativity. Have you ever known anyone to train their working retrievers using "unconventional methods" such as clicker training or positive reinforcement? Or is that not common at all?

[Dawgmanevang]

@BoscoandKoda The therapy worked well for him, and I believe it was because of all the foundational training that preceeded force to pile. We then put it all together time and time again under duress, where he had to perform mulple tasks together - the fully-trained retrieve, and that allowed me to make real time corrections for the chronic mouth issue. He is now a polished performer, and very stylish. As I said earlier, there is much more to this than meets the eye. Thanks for asking.

Evan

[BoscoandKoda]

@dawgmanevang

the correct position? Or is there explanation to the correcting every time?

[BoscoandKoda]

@Dawgmanevang

Yes- i understand so far.

I guess in my mind I would firstly fix the issue of mouthing before putting anything else to it (retrieving alot of things in order.) and allow to get away with it- though I do not/have not seen the dog personally so I'm sure you were doing other things away from the camera to not allow the mouthing so much.

My other question is the whole "heel" position. Every time the dog comes in it is corrected. Instead of correcting every time is he not taught (c