"How Much Government Is Necessary?" - Part 1 of the Debate

An epic debate between Stefan Molyneux of Freedomain Radio and Michael Badnarik, 2004 Libertarian Presidential Candidate on the question 'How Much Government is Necessary?' at Drexel University, Philadelphia, July 5, 2009 Full audio of the debate available at http://fdrurl.com/phillydebate

Category:

News & Politics

Tags:

• libertarian
• philosophy
• objectivist
• freedom
• anarchy
• pacifism
• objectivism
• conservative
• liberal
• democrat
• statism
• badnarik
• constitution
• founding
• fathers

[swu880]

Stefan should talk more about the competitive voluntary protection agency

Balderick doesn't get that sure people may be 'scared' of violence but that is exactly what government is- the centralization of the initiation of force.

If u really want protection & justice, u don't have to necessarily do it urself nor do u have to rely on a coercive monopoly

u can also determine a voluntary protection agency to help protect & arbitrate for u

[stefbot]

@swu880 You can check out my free book 'Practical Anarchy'

[Bristow42]

Thats why the world pulled out of Somalia. No government tax system.

[stefbot]

@Bristow42 That's a great point, thanks, I never thought of that...

[GetMeThere1]

Wow, finally at 22min in I can no longer restrain my urge to PRAISE you! Superb!!

I especially take note of the coincidence of technology and government power you describe (and I think about this a LOT). Until recently, it was one thing for a government to write a law, and quite ANOTHER to actually enforce it. Soon, government will be in a position to enforce every MINOR DETAIL of ever arbitrary piece of crap they write.

[stefbot]

@GetMeThere1 thanks :)

[andrewpyrah]

Lets shorten the answer for those for won't watch the whole video.

Question: How Much Government Is Necessary?

Answer: None.

[TimothyADonaghue]

Stefan's opening statement has got to be one of the finest, most powerful, most DESTRUCTIVE arguments against minarchism I've ever heard in my life. Jaw-dropper.

[olmoscd]

"pieces of paper that's all laws are are pieces of paper do you hold up a piece of paper against a bullet its just a piece of paper piece of paper piece of paper".

Stopped watching right there.

Who has EVER argued that paper does anything other than fucking store information?! Who has EVER argued that laws directly prevent crime? LAWS SIMPLY PUNISH CRIMINALS WHICH HAS THE DIRECT EFFECT OF INTIMIDATING OTHER CRIMINALS!

Strawmen. Strawmen everywhere.

[swu880]

@swu880

And the voluntary protection agency is more accurate to the highest desires & preferences of each & every person precisely because its voluntary

[TheTrueConservative]

I have to say Stefan is a pretty smart and nice guy and means well, but honestly anarchy is not a good idea. Idealistically, it's the perfect idea. It's the most moral and free, but the sad fact is human nature would not allow anarchy. It seems that all forms of government or non-government suck, and we will just be going in infinite cycles of BS.

[Tokojano]

Just wanna say this now bc i'm annoyed that i couldn't find it, but they only show stefan's opening remarks, not michaels...

[JoeKopsick4Congress]

@bwood21390

Government is not necessarily the State. The State operates without transparency and consent

[slickbtk]

@stefbot Its not only the existence of a tax structure that is a benefit to the would be invader, its also the existence of a weak minded population who has already proven themselves to be use to being controlled and will therefore be easier to increase or implement a new tax structure. A society without government not only doesn have a tax structure to take over but proves that the people in such a society are less prone to be controlled. its like stealing cattle or stealing a wild mustang.

[poetrychurch]

Molyneaux presents a remarkable capacity to speak at length without really saying much of anything, contradicting himself repeatedly along the way. Just one example: Without a Constitution, we would have had 13 smaller nations + the smaller a government, the more rapidly it grows = Delaware would never have invaded Iraq... WHAT??? It's not all that easy to contradict yourself, when you never said much of anything in the first place. This, I suppose, is something of an accomplishment. Kudos.