The Cardinal Vowels with Daniel Jones
Uploader Comments (orbitingteapot)
All Comments (49)
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@yurismir1 Every speaker can produce every sound: we get used to some of them, and take the other as "non-defined" sounds. If you pronounce the Span. for "house" = "casa" with the Eng. /æ/ phonem, we'll transcribe like this: /kasa/ [kæsæ], and it will be understandable, because [a] and [æ] are not distinctive in Span. If they are distinctive in language X, you shouldn't neutralize them or produce a non-defined sound instead. If I neutralize /i:/ and /ɪ/, lots of Eng. words will became ambiguous.
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@matikorn yeah it's just that I thought that daniel Jones created the diagram to locate ENGLISH vowels... so I saw those phonemes that are not english and it kinda made me feel confused...
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@Apolonietzscheanizad I understand what you're saying. All I was trying to say was why can't a person use a sound that is only phone in their native language as a phoneme in another language they are learning?
"...we should have two standard symbols to note them, not just one." Well, we already have a way of distinguishing between allophones and phonemes using the IPA. We write them as [ɜː] and [œ], respectively, if they are allophones, and /ɜː/ and /œ/, respectively, if they are phonemes.
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@yurismir1 (...) In other languages, the sounds that in English are just "sounds" (and not phonems, so they can replace each other) are phonems. Just imagine that in a language [3:] and [oe] are distincitve sounds (phonems): we should have two standard symbols to note them, not just one.
Greetings!
(I re-apologize for my English).
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@yurismir1 Maybe I risked too much by comparing with English phonetics, that I don't know very well. Anyway, it's important to know the basic difference between "phonem" and "sound": the phonems are the sounds that (in a standard speech) make differences between word pairs. In Received Pronounciation, [α] and [ae] are distinctive.
It's true that we can replace [ae] and [α] with [a], as we can replace [3:] with [oe], but we need to have a standard symbol (in this case, [3:]). (next message...)
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@Apolonietzscheanizad "...[a] sound is not in English..."
Well, it depends on what you mean by "not in English". There are many accents of English. Many people in the British Isles do actually use the phone [a] as a surface realization of the phoneme in words like "hat" and "stack". Many people in the United States and especially in the Great Lakes region, use [a] as a realization of the vowel in "hot" and "stock". So this sound and many others aren't as foreign as people like to think.
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@matikorn Though English has a large vowel system, some languages has:
1. More vowel sounds (like French, with 16 vowel sounds -with nasales, 12 without nasals) as [oe].
2. Less vowel sounds BUT DIFFERENT (Spanish has 5 vowel sounds, but his [a] sound is not in English -something between [ae] and [α]).
I hope my English is understable.
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Can Anyone tell me why there are weird symbols that doesn't correspond to the english language? I mean I'm a bit confused because i've learned all of the phonemes but there are like a bunch of phonemes that are not english in the cardinal vowel system, why's that?
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@MrJasonSmarts Listen to the similarity between [ɔ] and [ʌ]. Try to start hearing [ʌ] as an unrounded version of [ɔ]. Then try to imitate it. That's what I did. I tried to find similarities between the vowels. You can go to double-u(x3)(dot)sil(dot)org/c
omputing/ipahelp/ipahelp_downl oad(dot)htm and download IPA Help 2.1. You can use that to quiz yourself on the vowels. -
how do you make the cardinal [ʌ] like in the video? I can't make it, it sounds like [a] still...
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detomoylomo 3 years ago 19
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orbitingteapot 3 years ago 9
thanks for posting! you helped me a great deal with my current research paper by posting this. and also it is really interesting to see what our famous d.jones actually looked like and how he spoke. thanks!
Alex34623 3 years ago
Thanks! I just threw this together, the editing program I used wasn't cooperative. Maybe I'll do something better- example english words, or maybe multi-lingual charts.
orbitingteapot 3 years ago